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Nov 19, 2017 12:16:13   #
JCam Loc: MD Eastern Shore
 
I have been volunteered (drafted) to take Christmas party portraits at the local 'detention center' in a couple of weeks hosted by a local charity organization; it's an annual event. The subjects will be inmates and their families at some sort of a table & chair setup. There maybe a screen behind them, but I don't know yet. I have not been to the venue to see how complex the task may, but plan to do that this week. From what I've heard the physical conditions are pretty lousy--fluorescent lamps in the ceiling, some Christmas colored lights, distance from camera to subjects about 15' and I won't have the opportunity to experiment onsite. Apparently this is setup for a high speed taking and printing operation. They use two or three different chips, taking four or six shots then removing the chip inserting a new one while the old goes to the printer--no PP involved. The process is then repeated until all the pictures are taken. I have absolutely no info on the typical number of shots.

My camera is a Canon 60D and I'll be using the 18 - 135 mm kit lens that I've had for several years and will be using the built in flash which I seldom use, and the AutoFlash function or Shutter priority @ about 1/60-100. These will all be JPEG shots as we don't have to PP. I'll take a small table to set the tripod upon and use a remote release; my tripod doesn't elevate enough for my old back to comfortable using the viewfinder for the time that may be necessary.

My questions are 1. Will the AWB handle that mix of colors? If not????
2. I usually set my camera to the "Large-Fine" photo quality which at 3:2 ratio gives a 72" x 48" photo file-- 17.9 MP; they want to print 4" x 6"s which I think restricts the ratio to 3:2 and the quality to "small (S1)/fine" or "S1/Normal)" both yielding 4.5 MP. Which would be better? Alternate Recommendations?
3. Since the kids will probably not stay put long enough for a manual focus, I expect to use Auto A1Focus. Do I also turn on the AF Assist Flash beam also? I've never used it.
4. At 15' the manual indicated an ISO of 400. Does that seem OK or should I use Auto ISO?
5. Given the questionable venue setup, would it be of any help to set the camera for the 'Vivid' ambience setting?

As I readily admit I may be in "over my head" on this, should I just turn on the Auto flash and let the camera do the work? Does that function also turn on the Flash assist beam?

Thanks for any advice.

Reply
Nov 19, 2017 15:37:48   #
jdubu Loc: San Jose, CA
 
You are going to have a problem trying to use your pop up flash in combo with fluorescent lighting, regardless of the white balance setting. If you are going to use the pop up flash, put a green gel on it and set your WB to fluorescent. At least that will get the flash to a similar color temp to the fluorescent. (When you first get there, shoot an ambient light shot on fluorescent WB just to make sure those lights are green in temp. They may be daylight balanced, but I doubt it in that building) Don't worry about colored Christmas lights, they should be colored.

If you can't use an off camera flash, I would set up an inexpensive clamp portable light and reflectors as a basic portrait light session. Google DIY portrait lighting to get some ideas. Get a few practice shots to nail your settings and then go to town. Everything stays the same and you change the people in and out.

The pop up flash would not be my choice for lighting portraits.

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Nov 19, 2017 16:09:42   #
JCam Loc: MD Eastern Shore
 
jdubu, Thanks for the warning on the white balance. The on camera flash wouldn't be my choice either, but it's all I have that will work on the DSLR, and for the very few times I take flash pictures, it just isn't worth it to me to invest and store more stuff. This is just a one time deal; the guy who normally does this event will be out of town, and I got volunteered. I don't do portraits or nighttime shots so the cost vs. usage scale doesn't balance.

I'll make a few test shots and see what I get. As you said I doubt that the florescent are 'Daylights'; the state wouldn't spend that kind of money.

Jim

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Nov 19, 2017 16:37:07   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
JCam wrote:
I have been volunteered (drafted) to take Christmas party portraits at the local 'detention center' in a couple of weeks hosted by a local charity organization; it's an annual event. The subjects will be inmates and their families at some sort of a table & chair setup. There maybe a screen behind them, but I don't know yet. I have not been to the venue to see how complex the task may, but plan to do that this week. From what I've heard the physical conditions are pretty lousy--fluorescent lamps in the ceiling, some Christmas colored lights, distance from camera to subjects about 15' and I won't have the opportunity to experiment onsite. Apparently this is setup for a high speed taking and printing operation. They use two or three different chips, taking four or six shots then removing the chip inserting a new one while the old goes to the printer--no PP involved. The process is then repeated until all the pictures are taken. I have absolutely no info on the typical number of shots.

My camera is a Canon 60D and I'll be using the 18 - 135 mm kit lens that I've had for several years and will be using the built in flash which I seldom use, and the AutoFlash function or Shutter priority @ about 1/60-100. These will all be JPEG shots as we don't have to PP. I'll take a small table to set the tripod upon and use a remote release; my tripod doesn't elevate enough for my old back to comfortable using the viewfinder for the time that may be necessary.

My questions are 1. Will the AWB handle that mix of colors? If not????
2. I usually set my camera to the "Large-Fine" photo quality which at 3:2 ratio gives a 72" x 48" photo file-- 17.9 MP; they want to print 4" x 6"s which I think restricts the ratio to 3:2 and the quality to "small (S1)/fine" or "S1/Normal)" both yielding 4.5 MP. Which would be better? Alternate Recommendations?
3. Since the kids will probably not stay put long enough for a manual focus, I expect to use Auto A1Focus. Do I also turn on the AF Assist Flash beam also? I've never used it.
4. At 15' the manual indicated an ISO of 400. Does that seem OK or should I use Auto ISO?
5. Given the questionable venue setup, would it be of any help to set the camera for the 'Vivid' ambience setting?

As I readily admit I may be in "over my head" on this, should I just turn on the Auto flash and let the camera do the work? Does that function also turn on the Flash assist beam?

Thanks for any advice.
I have been volunteered (drafted) to take Christma... (show quote)


If you can set up near or in front of a wall, you can bounce your flash and not worry much about the ambient light by using a high ISO and shortest shutter speed possible for proper sync - usually around 1/200 for many Canon cameras.

The pop up flash is a really good idea, but only if it is used at it's lowest power setting, to create a catchlight in the eyes. It should not really contribute much to the image. Doing this will give you a consistent white balance which you can make a custom setting for in your camera. It would be amazingly frustrating to try and balance ambient with your popup flash.

As far as your other questions go:

1. No.
2. Set for Large-Fine don't worry about settings for smaller images - the print driver will handle the resizing.
3. Autofocus is fine, just make sure you move the sensor to the location where you are likely to find the eyes.
4. DO NOT USE AUTO ISO in this scenario. Use an external flash, perhaps on a bracket, so that you still have access to your popup flash, and use it as described above.
5. Use natural, not vivid.

You may be over your head at the moment. But I promise you you won't be after you've done the job. Try and set up a practice shoot, using a room about the same size and color as the one you will be shooting in, and either buy yourself or borrow/rent an external flash and bracket. Your results will be appreciably better if you do.

Look at everything on this website:

https://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html

You can't learn what this site can offer you on your own in such a short period of time.

Reply
Nov 19, 2017 17:02:11   #
CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver
 
Sometimes the proper response is: "I do not have the equipment or skill for this."

Without a proper flash, Gene's idea of using the pitiful pop-up for just a catchlight is a good one since trying to light subjects 15 feet away could be pushing it and trying to balance color temps of flash with fluorescent in your situation is tough as you would have to gel the flash. Not to mention the fact that ANY pop-up flash is the worst possible light for a portrait. Red-eye is almost a certainty.

You do not want to spend the money to buy a flash and that is understandable, but you can rent one for this one occurrence:
https://www.borrowlenses.com/product/Canon_Speedlite_600_EX_RT?source=auto-suggest

Determining a white balance for fluorescent is tough since there are different color temperatures for different bulbs and in many locations, different bulbs are in the same fixture.

I hope it works out for you.

Reply
Nov 19, 2017 17:49:28   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
Forget trying to gel the flash to match the fluorescents, there are various color temps for different fluorescents. The best thing for white balance is to set a custom WB. If you don't know how to do that, check your camera manual. The popup flash is a different problem, it may not have enough range for 15 feet, and if it does, you risk getting red eye with a flash that close to the lens. The lighting is also unflattering. You could make it much better if you could rent or borrow a real flash and bounce it or move it away from and above the camera.

Reply
Nov 19, 2017 18:45:37   #
The Watcher
 
Get some advice from guy who usually takes these pictures. Explain what you have going on and just maybe he'll offer you some lighting. It's worth a try.

Reply
 
 
Nov 19, 2017 18:56:02   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
CaptainC wrote:
Sometimes the proper response is: "I do not have the equipment or skill for this."

Without a proper flash, Gene's idea of using the pitiful pop-up for just a catchlight is a good one since trying to light subjects 15 feet away could be pushing it and trying to balance color temps of flash with fluorescent in your situation is tough as you would have to gel the flash. Not to mention the fact that ANY pop-up flash is the worst possible light for a portrait. Red-eye is almost a certainty.

You do not want to spend the money to buy a flash and that is understandable, but you can rent one for this one occurrence:
https://www.borrowlenses.com/product/Canon_Speedlite_600_EX_RT?source=auto-suggest

Determining a white balance for fluorescent is tough since there are different color temperatures for different bulbs and in many locations, different bulbs are in the same fixture.

I hope it works out for you.
Sometimes the proper response is: "I do not h... (show quote)


Best advice to the OP - "Sometimes the proper response is: 'I do not have the equipment or skill for this.'"


Reply
Nov 19, 2017 21:20:24   #
CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver
 
Gene51 wrote:
Best advice to the OP - "Sometimes the proper response is: 'I do not have the equipment or skill for this.'"



AND the proper use of quotation marks! Literacy is not dead.

Reply
Nov 20, 2017 06:09:21   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
CaptainC wrote:
AND the proper use of quotation marks! Literacy is not dead.


AND, English is my second language . . .

Reply
Nov 20, 2017 07:49:25   #
crhoetzl
 
Hi,

I think you are mountainizing a molehill. You are overthinking this project.

Your camera has a manual white balance capability. Check your manual on where to find it. Perform the necessary steps to accomplish this. Sit someone down at the photo site. He should be wearing a white shirt and use that reading.

"Large - Fine" is fine.

Since you write the families will all be the same distance from the camera pick a small f-stop (5.6, 8) and let depth of focus do its thing. You can also set the focus at the same time you do the manual white balance and then turn the autofocus off. Adjust the ISO to get a shutter speed of 1/60 or higher. Set your camera to MANUAL. This gives you the same f-stop and shutter speed. Since the lighting isn't changing, your settings shouldn't change either.

Natural, Vivid, I'd go with natural.

With the overhead lighting you should bring a plug in lamp to lighten the eyebrow (raccoon eyes). Turn this on before you do the white balance.

Take a few photos of the person in the white shirt to confirm your set up.

If there are any terms I used that you don't know, try Googling the word or phrase.

Good luck with your project.

Reply
 
 
Nov 20, 2017 07:50:09   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
With all due respect, you do not seem to me to have the skills to shoot those portraits. Flash is a good choice but your in camera flash will not cut it, you need better flashes and if you know how to use them, bouncing the light or using off camera flash with diffusers is the ideal solution. For family portraits chances are excellent you will need a small aperture like f11, perhaps f8.
When using flash, unless the shutter speed is a slow one the camera will not record much of the ambient light so the greenish tint of those fluorescent lights will not be seen. To be safe a filter is necessary to cut or eliminate the green light.
Without the right equipment your rate of failure is going to be very high.

Reply
Nov 20, 2017 08:06:59   #
ronz Loc: Florida
 
I believe if I were you I would consider begging off from the shoot. You just don't have the equipment necessary to do the job. It may be hard to say no but you will be doing yourself a big favor. Small room, quite possibly green, florescent lighting, pop-up flash, kit lens, possibly several people in the family shot....wow, lots of negatives. If you really want to shoot this I would find out how to contact the person who usually shoots it and find what they use. You may be able to borrow or rent some equipment from them. If you are bent on this, at minimum go to the location, take a friend (s) and take a couple shots then you can easily decide if you want to accept this session. It is not wrong to say No under the circumstances. Best of luck

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Nov 20, 2017 08:25:19   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
crhoetzl wrote:
Hi,

I think you are mountainizing a molehill. You are overthinking this project.

Your camera has a manual white balance capability. Check your manual on where to find it. Perform the necessary steps to accomplish this. Sit someone down at the photo site. He should be wearing a white shirt and use that reading.

"Large - Fine" is fine.

Since you write the families will all be the same distance from the camera pick a small f-stop (5.6, 8) and let depth of focus do its thing. You can also set the focus at the same time you do the manual white balance and then turn the autofocus off. Adjust the ISO to get a shutter speed of 1/60 or higher. Set your camera to MANUAL. This gives you the same f-stop and shutter speed. Since the lighting isn't changing, your settings shouldn't change either.

Natural, Vivid, I'd go with natural.

With the overhead lighting you should bring a plug in lamp to lighten the eyebrow (raccoon eyes). Turn this on before you do the white balance.

Take a few photos of the person in the white shirt to confirm your set up.

If there are any terms I used that you don't know, try Googling the word or phrase.

Good luck with your project.
Hi, br br I think you are mountainizing a molehil... (show quote)


It's nearly impossible to balance ambient fluorescent with flash and other light sources. White balance and green-magenta balance are different for all three. The OP is not overthinking this - he is being careful.

Besides, shooting at shutter speeds lower than 1/125 sec will bring another set of problems with exposure and color/white balance if the camera does not have an anti-flicker filter.

https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/4115/do-fluorescent-lighting-and-shutter-speed-create-a-problem-with-color-cast

Reply
Nov 20, 2017 09:01:22   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
The teachings of this master photographer regarding flash lighting may help: https://neilvn.com/tangents/about/books/

Look at his tutorials as well.

The work of this photographer provided me the breakthrough to learn flash lighting.
JCam wrote:
I have been volunteered (drafted) to take Christmas party portraits at the local 'detention center' in a couple of weeks hosted by a local charity organization; it's an annual event. The subjects will be inmates and their families at some sort of a table & chair setup. There maybe a screen behind them, but I don't know yet. I have not been to the venue to see how complex the task may, but plan to do that this week. From what I've heard the physical conditions are pretty lousy--fluorescent lamps in the ceiling, some Christmas colored lights, distance from camera to subjects about 15' and I won't have the opportunity to experiment onsite. Apparently this is setup for a high speed taking and printing operation. They use two or three different chips, taking four or six shots then removing the chip inserting a new one while the old goes to the printer--no PP involved. The process is then repeated until all the pictures are taken. I have absolutely no info on the typical number of shots.

My camera is a Canon 60D and I'll be using the 18 - 135 mm kit lens that I've had for several years and will be using the built in flash which I seldom use, and the AutoFlash function or Shutter priority @ about 1/60-100. These will all be JPEG shots as we don't have to PP. I'll take a small table to set the tripod upon and use a remote release; my tripod doesn't elevate enough for my old back to comfortable using the viewfinder for the time that may be necessary.

My questions are 1. Will the AWB handle that mix of colors? If not????
2. I usually set my camera to the "Large-Fine" photo quality which at 3:2 ratio gives a 72" x 48" photo file-- 17.9 MP; they want to print 4" x 6"s which I think restricts the ratio to 3:2 and the quality to "small (S1)/fine" or "S1/Normal)" both yielding 4.5 MP. Which would be better? Alternate Recommendations?
3. Since the kids will probably not stay put long enough for a manual focus, I expect to use Auto A1Focus. Do I also turn on the AF Assist Flash beam also? I've never used it.
4. At 15' the manual indicated an ISO of 400. Does that seem OK or should I use Auto ISO?
5. Given the questionable venue setup, would it be of any help to set the camera for the 'Vivid' ambience setting?

As I readily admit I may be in "over my head" on this, should I just turn on the Auto flash and let the camera do the work? Does that function also turn on the Flash assist beam?

Thanks for any advice.
I have been volunteered (drafted) to take Christma... (show quote)

Reply
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