Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Looking for a good accurate neutral gray card that has true 18 % reflectance.
Page <<first <prev 3 of 4 next>
Oct 12, 2017 09:22:37   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
James, have you heard of the histogram? Exposure today with digital cameras is easier than ever. Olympus M43 cameras allow you to see in the monitor how the final picture will look like at the time of exposure but if you are not using Olympus ALL cameras have color histogram to evaluate the initial exposure.

I do not know of your experience using exposure meters, I hope you are not an all matrix or evaluative kind of person because fot those of us that come from the film era center weighted and spot metering have always been more reliable. An excellent way to figure out the original exposure is using an incident exposure meter. The reading is accurate and keeps you in the ballpark.

Carrying a gray card to assess exposure is not practical. Caucasian skin, like that in the palm of the hand, reflects 36% of the light. Meter from the palm of the hand in the SAME LIGHT falling on your subject and open one stop for a most accurate exposure. Your hand is something that goes with you wherever you go, you do not have to carry something extra.

May I suggest that you review exposing the subject and also how to use exposure meters with special attention to spot metering.
No reasons to carry a gray card.

Reply
Oct 12, 2017 11:11:06   #
nikonbrain Loc: Crystal River Florida
 
jamesl wrote:
I am for an accurate neutral gray card that has true 18 % reflectance. I want to use it to accurately set correct exposure. I may vary the exposure one way or the other for creativity but I want the truely accurate initial exposure. Does anyone here use a gray card to set or check for accurate exposure and if so, could you suggest one or more good reliable ones? Any help will be greatly appreciated.


X-rite color checker pasport , portable .....can also create camera profiles . Greate for accurate colors like weddings and even better if you print with a color critical monitor,.also has a gray card .

Reply
Oct 12, 2017 13:46:39   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
jamesl wrote:
I am for an accurate neutral gray card that has true 18 % reflectance. I want to use it to accurately set correct exposure. I may vary the exposure one way or the other for creativity but I want the truely accurate initial exposure. Does anyone here use a gray card to set or check for accurate exposure and if so, could you suggest one or more good reliable ones? Any help will be greatly appreciated.


I use Lastolite EZ Balance targets... 18% neutral gray on one side, pure white on the other. Can be used both for exposure and for custom white balance.

Rather than rigid cardboard, they're a type of fabric on a springy metal frame, that allows them to quickly fold up to about 1/3 their size for easy storage. Available in a variety of sizes. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?sts=ma&ci=19421&cp=15293%2b19421&N=0&Ntt=lastolite+ezybalance

I also have a set of Warm Cards... those are smaller (about 5x7", if memory serves) and include one that's 18% gray on one side, pure white on the other.... but also have several lightly "tinted" cards to give images a slight warm or cool bias, when setting a custom white balance. https://www.vortexmediastore.com/pages/warmcards-white-balance-system

Reply
 
 
Oct 12, 2017 13:48:28   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
jamesl wrote:
I am for an accurate neutral gray card that has true 18 % reflectance. I want to use it to accurately set correct exposure. I may vary the exposure one way or the other for creativity but I want the truely accurate initial exposure. Does anyone here use a gray card to set or check for accurate exposure and if so, could you suggest one or more good reliable ones? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

They are readily available at almost all photo retailers!

Reply
Oct 12, 2017 15:12:45   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
AndyT wrote:
How far off can a gray photo bag be?


You have NEVER read the book or seen the movie. There are 50 shades of gray.

Reply
Oct 12, 2017 16:10:08   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
I have a couple of grey cards from varying sources including Kodak. For my work, I usually use either an ExpoDisk or the X-rite color checker passport. Best of luck.

Reply
Oct 12, 2017 17:07:12   #
Stirling_Bartholomew
 
camerapapi wrote:
James, have you heard of the histogram? Exposure today with digital cameras is easier than ever. Olympus M43 cameras allow you to see in the monitor how the final picture will look like at the time of exposure but if you are not using Olympus ALL cameras have color histogram to evaluate the initial exposure.

I do not know of your experience using exposure meters, I hope you are not an all matrix or evaluative kind of person because fot those of us that come from the film era center weighted and spot metering have always been more reliable. An excellent way to figure out the original exposure is using an incident exposure meter. The reading is accurate and keeps you in the ballpark.

Carrying a gray card to assess exposure is not practical. Caucasian skin, like that in the palm of the hand, reflects 36% of the light. Meter from the palm of the hand in the SAME LIGHT falling on your subject and open one stop for a most accurate exposure. Your hand is something that goes with you wherever you go, you do not have to carry something extra.

May I suggest that you review exposing the subject and also how to use exposure meters with special attention to spot metering.
No reasons to carry a gray card.
James, have you heard of the histogram? Exposure t... (show quote)


I agree with the above. Gray cards don't do anything useful in today's world. Assuming that you're camera has a decent histogram all you have to do to set exposure is open up until the highlights start blocking and back off a third or half stop. Color balance is very subjective. What lightroom considers a neutral color balance looks very blue to me and I never use it. I pay no attention to color balance when I'm shooting. It doesn't matter if I'm shooting under a cloudy sky with the camera set to tungsten.

40 years ago working at ProLab Seattle we would start the day by printing a Shirley on each enlarger. The color caller Dave who was also my supervisor would read the target patch on the Shirley tell us what to dial-in for our daily correction on each enlarger. Back in those days it made sense to have an accurate gray card when you were shooting. Back then expecting correct negatives from professional portrait photographers was wishful thinking. I think maybe 25% of the negatives we're correctly exposed. Some of our clients learned to shoot without light meters. I remember one studio who had total control over their lighting and every negative was perfectly exposed. I remember them because they were atypical of the general work that came in the door. On the other extreme was the studio which over exposed every negative a minimum of three stops. The other lab in the neighborhood Pacific Color would send suggestions back to the photographers about their exposure. Prolab did not do that. We printed what came in the door without comment. Pacific Color was the lab I used for my own work. The studio used half a dozen different labs. Maxed out credit at one lab and move to the next.

Reply
 
 
Oct 12, 2017 18:03:27   #
coullone Loc: Paynesville, Victoria, Australia
 
I use the Kodak 18% grey card, they are made from an acid free material and will not change colour over time. They should still be stored in their original packing as any dye or pigment will fade over time - just look at Egyptian pantings in the Vally of the Kings!

Reply
Oct 12, 2017 18:06:37   #
papa Loc: Rio Dell, CA
 
...and of course, this is a great place to find one.

Reply
Oct 12, 2017 18:40:54   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
jamesl wrote:
I am for an accurate neutral gray card that has true 18 % reflectance. I want to use it to accurately set correct exposure. I may vary the exposure one way or the other for creativity but I want the truely accurate initial exposure. Does anyone here use a gray card to set or check for accurate exposure and if so, could you suggest one or more good reliable ones? Any help will be greatly appreciated.


Delta-1. B&H and Adorama stock them.

A One Shot Digital Calibration Target is a much better choice because it can be used to assess exposure and to set a more accurate custom white balance. Lastolite makes a similar target.

Reply
Oct 12, 2017 19:07:04   #
jamesl Loc: Pennsylvania
 


Thank you for the links, I'll be sure to check them all out.

Reply
 
 
Oct 12, 2017 19:12:25   #
jamesl Loc: Pennsylvania
 
burkphoto wrote:
Delta-1. B&H and Adorama stock them.

A One Shot Digital Calibration Target is a much better choice because it can be used to assess exposure and to set a more accurate custom white balance. Lastolite makes a similar target.


Is that the one that has a Black, White and Gray section all three in the one card? I had wondered about them.

Reply
Oct 12, 2017 19:18:21   #
canon Lee
 
jamesl wrote:
I am for an accurate neutral gray card that has true 18 % reflectance. I want to use it to accurately set correct exposure. I may vary the exposure one way or the other for creativity but I want the truely accurate initial exposure. Does anyone here use a gray card to set or check for accurate exposure and if so, could you suggest one or more good reliable ones? Any help will be greatly appreciated.


Hi this is a tricky question you ask... The camera meter is more like 12 or 13% gray when using an 18% gray card & will give you about 1/2 stop underexposed. In a more practical sense, I use the white balance in LR and knowing my out sourced color lab I adjust for flesh tone saturation and dense black levels. I rely on getting fairly accurate flesh tones, so the printing company can make or break a good print. I feel seeking a perfect color balance is hit or miss or at best close. So you painstakingly prepare your print and adjust your WB only to find out that the print is not what you sent. They may run your settings through their printer ICC calibration and that changes all of your hard work. So James you may be wasting your time looking for absolute 18% gray.
If you edit in LR and adjust the highlight slider you affect the color as well as the white levels, & there goes all of your hard work looking for perfection...

Reply
Oct 12, 2017 19:26:11   #
jamesl Loc: Pennsylvania
 
Stirling_Bartholomew wrote:
I agree with the above. Gray cards don't do anything useful in today's world. Assuming that you're camera has a decent histogram all you have to do to set exposure is open up until the highlights start blocking and back off a third or half stop. Color balance is very subjective. What lightroom considers a neutral color balance looks very blue to me and I never use it. I pay no attention to color balance when I'm shooting. It doesn't matter if I'm shooting under a cloudy sky with the camera set to tungsten.

40 years ago working at ProLab Seattle we would start the day by printing a Shirley on each enlarger. The color caller Dave who was also my supervisor would read the target patch on the Shirley tell us what to dial-in for our daily correction on each enlarger. Back in those days it made sense to have an accurate gray card when you were shooting. Back then expecting correct negatives from professional portrait photographers was wishful thinking. I think maybe 25% of the negatives we're correctly exposed. Some of our clients learned to shoot without light meters. I remember one studio who had total control over their lighting and every negative was perfectly exposed. I remember them because they were atypical of the general work that came in the door. On the other extreme was the studio which over exposed every negative a minimum of three stops. The other lab in the neighborhood Pacific Color would send suggestions back to the photographers about their exposure. Prolab did not do that. We printed what came in the door without comment. Pacific Color was the lab I used for my own work. The studio used half a dozen different labs. Maxed out credit at one lab and move to the next.
I agree with the above. Gray cards don't do anythi... (show quote)



I actually started in photography back in 1963 when I was 14. I have used gray cards and I had one or maybe several of the Shirley cards at one time. I did all of my own processing and printing in both B/W and in Color. I understand how the histogram represents the tonal breakdown of the image. I shoot in RAW so I don't worry much about the white balance though I do know how to set custom white balance and do in some occasions. What I am wanting to do is find a "calibrated" gray card if there is actually one and use it in zeroing in exposure. I can take a shot with the gray card in it and use the spike generated by the card to see if I am over or underexposed and approximately by how much. I can correct the exposure by adjusting the exposure to center the gray card spike. The problem is in variations in the actual reflectance from one card to another. They may all be gray and neutral but they don't all have the same reflectance.

Reply
Oct 12, 2017 19:27:21   #
jamesl Loc: Pennsylvania
 
billnikon wrote:
You have NEVER read the book or seen the movie. There are 50 shades of gray.


Not yet.

Reply
Page <<first <prev 3 of 4 next>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.