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SOOC. Has it become a question of semantics?
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Aug 20, 2017 18:11:55   #
LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field
 
There are those who like to say that they "get it right in the camera" implying that the digital jpeg version has only been correctly exposed, is well-framed, and has the correctly focal points as to present an image that stands on its own without PP. Or simplified: as produced created by the photographer using his/her imagination, a camera, and a lens.

However, all of my cameras can be manipulated to produce: "in camera HDR", focus stacking, panoramas, various scene modes, including monochrome, monochrome with a Y filter, monochrome with a R filter, vivid, and various film simulations. And that's only the short list.....

So are all of these also SOOC? If not, where does one draw the line?

So that's my discussion topic of the day....

Reply
Aug 20, 2017 18:21:13   #
Keldon Loc: Yukon, B.C.
 
Whenever I post a photo it is almost always SOOC. Maybe a little straightening but that's generally it. I'm certainly not saying my photos don't need any work at all, I know they do, but that aspect and the finished product I'll leave for my enjoyment.

I don't post to show off my photo skills (or lack thereof) or my Photoshop or Lightroom skills, I post simply to show others places that I have been or animals I saw that maybe others haven't the opportunity to see.

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Aug 20, 2017 18:23:43   #
rjaywallace Loc: Wisconsin
 
Rightly or wrongly, the definition has become those "photographs that were downloaded or transmitted direct from the camera and did not receive any subsequent post-processing following the download. The definition seems to accept the premise that any in-camera adjustments do not void the SOOC claim. You, LoneRangeFinder, might respond that that is not cricket, and I would agree.

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Aug 20, 2017 18:42:56   #
leftj Loc: Texas
 
LoneRangeFinder wrote:
There are those who like to say that they "get it right in the camera" implying that the digital jpeg version has only been correctly exposed, is well-framed, and has the correctly focal points as to present an image that stands on its own without PP. Or simplified: as produced created by the photographer using his/her imagination, a camera, and a lens.

However, all of my cameras can be manipulated to produce: "in camera HDR", focus stacking, panoramas, various scene modes, including monochrome, monochrome with a Y filter, monochrome with a R filter, vivid, and various film simulations. And that's only the short list.....

So are all of these also SOOC? If not, where does one draw the line?

So that's my discussion topic of the day....
There are those who like to say that they "ge... (show quote)


Of course they are SOOC. What else could they be if nothing further is done to them after the shot is taken? How are the manipulations you mentioned any different than changing the aperture, ISO and Shutter speed. They all effect how the photo looks.

Reply
Aug 20, 2017 22:07:30   #
wanderingbear Loc: San Diego
 
My Teacher, estimated that with the new camera's that there are over 350,000 possible setting. So with every thing artistic it is in the eye of the beholder YOU. It is just amazing what YOU can create. What many newer photographers do not seem to be aware of is how much the Great photographers of the past did post production. Hours in the Dark Room.

The Bear

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Aug 20, 2017 22:38:18   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
wanderingbear wrote:
My Teacher, estimated that with the new camera's that there are over 350,000 possible setting. So with every thing artistic it is in the eye of the beholder YOU. It is just amazing what YOU can create. What many newer photographers do not seem to be aware of is how much the Great photographers of the past did post production. Hours in the Dark Room.

The Bear
Some Great Photographers, such as Ansel Adams, spent hours in the Dark Room. Other Great Photographers, such as Garry Winogrand, spent as little time as possible in the Dark Room. Generalizing here makes no sense at all.

Reply
Aug 21, 2017 01:04:00   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
LoneRangeFinder wrote:
There are those who like to say that they "get it right in the camera" implying that the digital jpeg version has only been correctly exposed, is well-framed, and has the correctly focal points as to present an image that stands on its own without PP. Or simplified: as produced created by the photographer using his/her imagination, a camera, and a lens.

However, all of my cameras can be manipulated to produce: "in camera HDR", focus stacking, panoramas, various scene modes, including monochrome, monochrome with a Y filter, monochrome with a R filter, vivid, and various film simulations. And that's only the short list.....

So are all of these also SOOC? If not, where does one draw the line?

So that's my discussion topic of the day....
There are those who like to say that they "ge... (show quote)


Photography, like many other disciplines, is very much a multifaceted endeavor. There are numerous ways to make an image. I do not believe that the path chosen in any way makes any image more or less of a photograph. But for me, using the camera, lens, and other equipment to capture the best possible image when I press the release button is a big part of the fun of photography. Many others prefer to accomplish the same result in the darkroom, which is perfectly fine also.

To your question...in my mind, choosing a particular ISO setting is like choosing what film stock to use. Setting white balance (to an extent) is like choosing what specific color film to use. It can also be the same as choosing a filter. My Nikons also give me the specific choice of a yellow, orange, red, or green filter when shooting black and white. Many of the other shooting menu choices can also be mapped to pre-exposure choices that were made in film photography. Others expand on the options available using film. So in my mind, a photographer can use these options and still call the result SOOC.

Now I also have another whole menu with redeye correction, trim (crop), HDR, and other similar choices which correspond to activities usually done in a darkroom to correct shortcomings or otherwise just improve images after exposure. I am still on the fence if images which have been subjected to those actions should be labeled as SOOC. On one hand, they are modifications done in the camera and before downloading. On the other hand, it is hard to deny that they are post-processing...processing done after the exposure. If I do any of those, I will always identify the image as, for instance, no processing other than cropping.

As an aside...one interesting conundrum that I have been seeing on UHH is that photographers who would never use the program mode, because it cedes too much control to the camera, will shoot all day using automatic white balance. Using AWB is not a crime, by any means. But my experience with it is that it creates photographs with a bland, uniform color palette. Because my aging vision means that I do not have quite the color vision facility that I used to have, it is not fun for me to try to go back and fix everything later. I prefer to get it as close as possible when I capture the image and know how it is supposed to be.

These are my thoughts. They carry no intent to influence how anyone else thinks or works. But they work for me.

Reply
 
 
Aug 21, 2017 02:09:46   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
LoneRangeFinder wrote:
There are those who like to say that they "get it right in the camera" implying that the digital jpeg version has only been correctly exposed, is well-framed, and has the correctly focal points as to present an image that stands on its own without PP. Or simplified: as produced created by the photographer using his/her imagination, a camera, and a lens.

However, all of my cameras can be manipulated to produce: "in camera HDR", focus stacking, panoramas, various scene modes, including monochrome, monochrome with a Y filter, monochrome with a R filter, vivid, and various film simulations. And that's only the short list.....

So are all of these also SOOC? If not, where does one draw the line?

So that's my discussion topic of the day....
There are those who like to say that they "ge... (show quote)


If you do nothing to the image once it is dowloaded then it is SOOC, even if the camera does complex in camera post capture processing. So, yes semantics, peppered with a lack of understanding of modern technolgy from some. There's no real moral principle here.

Reply
Aug 21, 2017 02:31:58   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
larryepage wrote:
Photography, like many other disciplines, is very much a multifaceted endeavor. There are numerous ways to make an image. I do not believe that the path chosen in any way makes any image more or less of a photograph. But for me, using the camera, lens, and other equipment to capture the best possible image when I press the release button is a big part of the fun of photography. Many others prefer to accomplish the same result in the darkroom, which is perfectly fine also.

To your question...in my mind, choosing a particular ISO setting is like choosing what film stock to use. Setting white balance (to an extent) is like choosing what specific color film to use. It can also be the same as choosing a filter. My Nikons also give me the specific choice of a yellow, orange, red, or green filter when shooting black and white. Many of the other shooting menu choices can also be mapped to pre-exposure choices that were made in film photography. Others expand on the options available using film. So in my mind, a photographer can use these options and still call the result SOOC.

Now I also have another whole menu with redeye correction, trim (crop), HDR, and other similar choices which correspond to activities usually done in a darkroom to correct shortcomings or otherwise just improve images after exposure. I am still on the fence if images which have been subjected to those actions should be labeled as SOOC. On one hand, they are modifications done in the camera and before downloading. On the other hand, it is hard to deny that they are post-processing...processing done after the exposure. If I do any of those, I will always identify the image as, for instance, no processing other than cropping.

As an aside...one interesting conundrum that I have been seeing on UHH is that photographers who would never use the program mode, because it cedes too much control to the camera, will shoot all day using automatic white balance. Using AWB is not a crime, by any means. But my experience with it is that it creates photographs with a bland, uniform color palette. Because my aging vision means that I do not have quite the color vision facility that I used to have, it is not fun for me to try to go back and fix everything later. I prefer to get it as close as possible when I capture the image and know how it is supposed to be.

These are my thoughts. They carry no intent to influence how anyone else thinks or works. But they work for me.
Photography, like many other disciplines, is very ... (show quote)


Good points, but how often do we forget the pre-capture processing that some of us used to do, choice of film and / or filters? Then there were variations in film developing techniques. Perhaps the nearest equivalent to today's SOOC was at worst straight out of the 'Instamatic' and the drug store, and at best straight out of the enlarger.

White balance follows the same rules excepted that with digital it is an easier thing to adjust and fix if we didn't plan for it before time.

Reply
Aug 21, 2017 05:36:09   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
LoneRangeFinder wrote:
There are those who like to say that they "get it right in the camera" implying that the digital jpeg version has only been correctly exposed, is well-framed, and has the correctly focal points as to present an image that stands on its own without PP. Or simplified: as produced created by the photographer using his/her imagination, a camera, and a lens.

However, all of my cameras can be manipulated to produce: "in camera HDR", focus stacking, panoramas, various scene modes, including monochrome, monochrome with a Y filter, monochrome with a R filter, vivid, and various film simulations. And that's only the short list.....

So are all of these also SOOC? If not, where does one draw the line?

So that's my discussion topic of the day....
There are those who like to say that they "ge... (show quote)


SOOC means right out of the camera. Period. No processing through LR, PS, or anything else.

Like the current thread on street photography, let's not get too hung up on terminology.

Reply
Aug 21, 2017 06:19:28   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
A few years ago there were two distinct camps - SOOC or PP. The photography world became divided. The main reason was, that many, perhaps most, photo competitions insisted on "No PP". This led to a fair amount of cheating and some spoiled reputations. The same ban with many photo magazines, including National Geographic, who actually published the fact that they had discovered "PP cheats" entering international competition.
I believe National Geographic, to this day, ban most PP from their competitions and from their Mag.
However, the world moves on, for better or worse, and I, for one, am moving with it. We really have no choice, now that cameras have become computers and we can dial in and save different presets, which, combined with shooting modes, can do in advance (PreP) most of what PostP can do afterwards.
I still look back with nostalgia to the time when photographic recording had a purity now lost - to the time when I believed Adams was conning us.

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Aug 21, 2017 06:27:55   #
asiafish Loc: Bakersfield, CA
 
JPEG?

My primary camera shoots RAW only, no HDR, no scene modes, nothing at all.
LoneRangeFinder wrote:
There are those who like to say that they "get it right in the camera" implying that the digital jpeg version has only been correctly exposed, is well-framed, and has the correctly focal points as to present an image that stands on its own without PP. Or simplified: as produced created by the photographer using his/her imagination, a camera, and a lens.

However, all of my cameras can be manipulated to produce: "in camera HDR", focus stacking, panoramas, various scene modes, including monochrome, monochrome with a Y filter, monochrome with a R filter, vivid, and various film simulations. And that's only the short list.....

So are all of these also SOOC? If not, where does one draw the line?

So that's my discussion topic of the day....
There are those who like to say that they "ge... (show quote)

Reply
Aug 21, 2017 06:28:57   #
Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida
 
Whatever image goes from my card reader to my computer is SOOC. Then, I Always make changes.

Reply
Aug 21, 2017 06:40:57   #
mborn Loc: Massachusetts
 
Kmgw9v wrote:
Whatever image goes from my card reader to my computer is SOOC. Then, I Always make changes.


Good Reply

Reply
Aug 21, 2017 07:00:58   #
Jim Bob
 
leftj wrote:
Of course they are SOOC. What else could they be if nothing further is done to them after the shot is taken? How are the manipulations you mentioned any different than changing the aperture, ISO and Shutter speed. They all effect how the photo looks.



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