chaman

What you learn from those images, care to explain it in photographic terms if possible? Thanks in advance.

papakatz45 Loc: South Florida-West Palm Beach

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, as am I. I may disagree with your opinion.

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

5DSR is currently the best you can get from anyone for landscape work. For grand kids it will do the job.
5D MIV will still do incredible landscapes but will do better for grand kids and great professional level video. I personally would go with the 5D MIV for the greater versatility.

Impressionist

Canon 6d will solve some landscape issues. The Sony A77ll should be great for grandchildren. Don't be in a hurry ditch it. Consider upgrading glass for it. It is surprising how many problems can be solved by using the right lens. An interchangeable lens camera is only part of a system not the whole system. You will still have glass issues going full frame.

Dutzie Loc: I'd like to know

The 6d isn't for photographing kids. They will be down the street before the camera figures it out. (to slow) The 7dm2 is the best for them..
The 6D is excellent for portraiture and scenery. The IQ of the 7dm2 isn't what you will get with the 6D however. If you have to pick one get the 7dm2(blistering fast). A 7dm2 and a 6d would be a winning combination..

Kuzano

Lots of people using the cheap 6D and seem happy with it.

The camera, for some time, had a serious problem with Moire Patterns in Video. Maybe they fixed it. There is a company that makes a fix attachement for the Moire problem that costs around $400 and up.

I only mention this if video is important to you. Sounds like it ranks solid as a good cheap FF Canon.

Here is a link to the company that sells the video moire filter pattern problem. Mosaic Engineering.

http://mosaicengineering.com/

There are some you tube videos for other fixes for the filtering that causes the Moire Patterns in the video.

I'd be unlikely to have interest in the 6D because of resale due to the video problem. It appears great for stills, but you may have to run it out on the shutter to get it sold used.

chaman

And I may not care.

Kuzano

Sold Canon 6Ds on eBay. I made the point about the video on the 6d. I decided to check used SOLD 6D's on eBay.

Over the last 60 days, 740 6D's have sold on eBay (they keep the sold listings 60 days accrued).

The bulk of the used 6D have sold body and body and kit for $600 to$1000. Perhaps 75 have sold over $1000. That's the SOLD items.

On For Sale or Auction, there are 500 starting at $200 and going to the moon... unrealistic.

The sold listings........http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_sop=15&_nkw=Canon%206d&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

Basil Loc: New Mexico

That's a good point. I have the 6D and agree it is not the best for video, especially in scenes where moire might be an issue. For home movies, etc., probably fine, but for anything you want to publish professionally, not the best choice.

buffyjean Loc: Washington, North Carolina

WOW !!!

Basil Loc: New Mexico

Indeed.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

If you already have some Sony gear, maybe you should consider a Sony full frame that will share some of the same lenses and accessories. They make good full frame cameras, too.

The next thing to think about is whether you really need full frame or not. There's all sorts of hype about FF, but switching formats rarely make anyone a "better photographer". They just end up with a bigger, heavier kit that cost a lot more and are the only ones who actually see any difference, viewing their images on their computer monitor at ridiculously large sizes. By the they've sized the images for online sharing or printing at normal sizes, there's no real difference in the quality of the end product.

That said, FF is nice for big prints... say 16x24" and up. Below that, there's not a great deal of benefit. It's also more resistant to image noise at high ISOs. Less crowded sensors make for less cross-talk and heat issues, both of which tend to cause noise. 24MP on an APS-C size sensor has some 84,000 pixels sites per square mm, while the same 24MP on FF has around 27,000 pixel sites per sq. mm. The pixel sites for FF also can be larger, which can capture a little more fine detail and is one of the reasons why they can be preferable for large prints. Another factor is that less magnification is needed to make a print... for example an 8x10 from an APS-C image is about 13X magnification, while the same size print from FF is just over 8X (assuming no cropping in either case). There also are some differences in depth of field control. DoF doesn't really change with sensor format alone. But, photographing the same subject and framing them the same way with FF requires either a longer focal length or moving closer or a little of both, and those tend to make DoF shallower. And, at the other extreme, small apertures are more usable because FF is more resistant to "diffraction" effect. A 24MP APS-C camera has a diffraction limited aperture of about f5.6, while a 24MP FF will be around f11 (based upon an 8x10 print at normal viewing distances).

However, APS-C cameras such as yours have their advantages too. In addition to much lower cost, both the camera and the lenses used on it can be a lot smaller an lighter. If you use a 300mm lens on an APS-C camera, you'll need approx. 500mm to frame the same subject from the same distance the same way with FF. Even wide lenses are bigger, heavier and more expensive. They need to have larger elements to be able to produce a larger image circle to fully cover a 24x36mm sensor. For the large part, APS-C cameras can utilize both crop-only and full frame lenses, while FF basically requires FF lenses. Yes, some FF cameras have a crop-lens mode, where they only use the central portion of their sensor when fitted with crop-design lenses... But that greatly reduces resolution. Instead of a 24MP camera, what's left will be under 10MP. APS-C cameras are commonly able to shoot faster, too... higher frame rates, faster shutter speeds and/or flash sync speeds. Smaller mirror and shutter mechanisms can be quieter, too.

Generally speaking, full frame is desirable for landscape (large prints, fine detail) and portraits (depth of field control w/large apertures), and possibly macro (DoF control w/small apertures).

However APS-C can be preferable for sports/action shooting (more "reach"), general purpose (affordability, size & weight) and actually is "more than enough" for most peoples' uses. But, only you can say if a full frame camera better fits your needs. Just don't go buying one for the wrong reasons ("Why don't my images look any better, everyone said FF is better and I've spent a lot of money switching formats!")

If you still want FF, there are plenty of them out there. Sony, Nikon, Pentax, Leica and Canon all make FF cameras. Canon's line-up of FF models are:

- EOS 6D is the most entry-level model, most compact and lighter weight FF model, and currently the oldest design Canon offers... 20MP, simple 11-point AF system with only the center point a lower light capable (-3EV), high performance "dual axis, cross type". The other ten points are less high performance "single axis type". 6D is "f5.6 limited", meaning that it's AF won't work if a 1.4X teleconverter is added to an f5.6 lens (or a 2X TC on an f4... in either case making an effective f8). The 6D's top shutter speed is 1/4000 and it's flash sync is 1/180. I haven't seen an actual claim from Canon, but typically cameras at this build level have shutters rated for 75,000 to 100,000 actuations. In continuous shooting mode, 6D can shoot at up to about 4 frames per second. Overall, 6D is quite capable for portraiture, landscape, and macro with relatively cooperative, stationary subjects. It's AF system and general speed of handling are less desirable for any sort of action or sports photography. There are rumors of a new 6D model coming in 2017. With it's relatively modest resolution on FF, the 6D has been considered one of the best low light/high ISO cameras. But newer models now seem to be doing just as well or better.

- EOS 5D Mark III is a recently discontinued model, but still widely available new. At 22MP, it's not much higher resolution than the 6D. But it's a significant "step up" from 6D primarily due to the 5DIII's much more advanced and customizable 61-point AF system, -2EV capable and, "f8 capable" (center point only), with 41 higher performance "cross type" AF points. Top shutter speed it 1/8000, flash sync is 1/200 and continuous shooting can be done up to 6 frames per second. Build quality is also better, with more sealing, more metal and higher durability rated shutter (150,000 clicks, if memory serves). The 5DIII's AF system, significantly upgraded from the 5DII's, made it a more sports/action capable camera, while still being fine for less active purposes.

- EOS 5DS and 5DS-R at 50MP, the highest resolution "full frame" DSLR available from anyone (Sony, Nikon and Pentax are producing 36MP and 42MP cameras, so actually are pretty close). The very large images require dual processors to handle them (and might call for a computer upgrade, to be able to post-process them) and these models shoot a little slower at 5 frames per second continuous. The much more crowded sensor also make the 5DS/5DS-R less high ISO capable. In fact, their highest settable ISO is 12800, three full stops less than the 22MP 5DIII (ISO 102400). The 5DS and 5DS-R also have a few more tweaks, such as built in Wifi, but otherwise are very similar to Mark III. The difference between 5DS and 5DS-R is that the latter has a weakened anti-alias filter to capture that last little bit of fine detail, though it be at greater risk of moiré. This is unlikely to be a problem shooting landscapes, but might be if shooting clothing, cityscapes and other in situations where repeating patterns can cause moiré.

- EOS 5D Mark IV is the latest and greatest FF model from Canon. It's been boosted to 30MP and has gotten a lot of incremental improvements compared to 5D Mark III. It's 61-point AF system sounds and looks the same but isn't. It now covers more of the image area and is -3EV capable and f8 capable at all 61 points. It's also shoots a little faster (7 frames per second) and has an improved mirror/shutter mechanism that's quieter and more durable. The 5DIV's available ISO range hasn't changed, but is probably more widely usable... or at least as good, which is great considering the 36% increase in resolution. Another feature on recent Canon including this one is Anti-Flicker, which greatly improves exposure accuracy when shooting under fluorescent and similar lighting. It also has Dual Pixel Auto Focus in Live View, much faster than the contrast detection focus method used in Live View on earlier models, and a "Touch Screen" monitor. 5DIV also can shoot 4K video.

Canon 5D-series beginning with the Mark II can shoot HD video (and, again, 5D Mark IV can shoot 4K) and they've been widely used in Hollywood and elsewhere by cinematographers. Many movies you've seen have been filmed with them. Being a lot smaller, lighter and less expensive than the typical movie camera, 5D-series are often used for "hero" shots in tight spaces and from angles that might otherwise be impossible. The 5DS/5DS-R are an exception, they're not ideal for video.

- EOS 1DX are Canon's most pro-oriented, ultra-high performance models. The current Mark II is a 20MP camera that can shoot up to 14 frames per second and is rated to have shutter durability of 450,000 clicks. The original 1DX from a few years ago isn't much less camera... 18MP and 12 frames per second. These are designed for fast action/sports at a pro-shooter level and, like all 1D series have been, are especially well sealed for use under extreme conditions. (A landscape shooter might prefer one of the higher resolution 5D-series.) The 1DX use a larger battery for about twice the number of shots per charge as the other Canon FF models. Of course, 1DX-series models are among the most expensive DSLRs.

Have fun shopping!

Kuzano

Resale sucks.... because Video Sucked.

Only good as a still camera, and the lousy HISTORY on video has the resale in the tank.

Great camera, if you don't use the video (see the video history by google Canon 6D video), and if you are going to shoot the shutter or sensor out of it.

Resale is in the tank. See my shortly earlier post on this.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Wow! Did you forget to eat your prunes this morning or something?

Basil Loc: New Mexico

LOL! Some people need to prove their importance.