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Nikon D7200 - Possible Buyer's Remorse - Focus Confusion!!!!
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Feb 17, 2016 07:31:37   #
mgstrawn Loc: Atlanta, GA
 
Hello! I treated myself to the Nikon D7200/18-140mm lens for Christmas. Previously I had the D3100 (awesome little camera on which to learn) and the D5100, which has served me well. I am an avid amateur and learned to shoot confidently in Manual from UHH. I expected a learning curve as there was one going from the 3100 to the 5100, but all my confidence is just about gone!

My first difficulty is the focus. I love to shoot candid portraits and my photos are soft. I try to focus on the eyes as I learned to do, but have not had much success. I'm hoping that I 'm just not fully understanding the 7200's focus.

Secondly, I also enjoy shooting sport shots of the grandkids - baseball, basketball & soccer. I just haven't been able to totally 'freeze' the motion as I did with the other cameras. I'll post an example of this.

I have bought books, cheat sheets, etc., but I thought maybe some of you could give me some pointers or recognize what I'm doing wrong. I really have enjoyed the 7200 - it was not hard to learn the basic functions, etc. But so disappointed in my results so far.

Thank You!

Soft arms & legs - no crisp 'freezing' of the action
Soft arms & legs - no crisp 'freezing' of the acti...
(Download)

Silly memory photo, but shows the difference in the sharpness of the eyes. Caroline at 2 & 4 years. One on left was shot with D3100 - natural lighting.
Silly memory photo, but shows the difference in th...
(Download)

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Feb 17, 2016 07:41:00   #
hangman45 Loc: Hueytown Alabama
 
mgstrawn wrote:
Hello! I treated myself to the Nikon D7200/18-140mm lens for Christmas. Previously I had the D3100 (awesome little camera on which to learn) and the D5100, which has served me well. I am an avid amateur and learned to shoot confidently in Manual from UHH. I expected a learning curve as there was one going from the 3100 to the 5100, but all my confidence is just about gone!

My first difficulty is the focus. I love to shoot candid portraits and my photos are soft. I try to focus on the eyes as I learned to do, but have not had much success. I'm hoping that I 'm just not fully understanding the 7200's focus.

Secondly, I also enjoy shooting sport shots of the grandkids - baseball, basketball & soccer. I just haven't been able to totally 'freeze' the motion as I did with the other cameras. I'll post an example of this.

I have bought books, cheat sheets, etc., but I thought maybe some of you could give me some pointers or recognize what I'm doing wrong. I really have enjoyed the 7200 - it was not hard to learn the basic functions, etc. But so disappointed in my results so far.

Thank You!
Hello! I treated myself to the Nikon D7200/18-140m... (show quote)


Not going to stop motion with a 1/160 shutter speed with any camera so that is why basketball pics are not as sharp.
The one on the right is sharper than the left one

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Feb 17, 2016 07:41:19   #
Gitchigumi Loc: Wake Forest, NC
 
I have the D7100, but focus should be the same... Do you use back-button focus? Or, the default setting using the focus/shutter button? And, which AF mode are you using? How many focus points?

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Feb 17, 2016 07:55:21   #
mikeroetex Loc: Lafayette, LA
 
mgstrawn wrote:
Hello! I treated myself to the Nikon D7200/18-140mm lens for Christmas. Previously I had the D3100 (awesome little camera on which to learn) and the D5100, which has served me well. I am an avid amateur and learned to shoot confidently in Manual from UHH. I expected a learning curve as there was one going from the 3100 to the 5100, but all my confidence is just about gone!

My first difficulty is the focus. I love to shoot candid portraits and my photos are soft. I try to focus on the eyes as I learned to do, but have not had much success. I'm hoping that I 'm just not fully understanding the 7200's focus.

Secondly, I also enjoy shooting sport shots of the grandkids - baseball, basketball & soccer. I just haven't been able to totally 'freeze' the motion as I did with the other cameras. I'll post an example of this.

I have bought books, cheat sheets, etc., but I thought maybe some of you could give me some pointers or recognize what I'm doing wrong. I really have enjoyed the 7200 - it was not hard to learn the basic functions, etc. But so disappointed in my results so far.

Thank You!
Hello! I treated myself to the Nikon D7200/18-140m... (show quote)
Bump up the shutter speed (and consequently the ISO indoors). It appears you are panning with the action at 1/160. You need to get up into the 1/500 range. You may need a slightly faster lens for indoor sports, but the problem is definitely shutter speed. As for your little girl, looks to me like you just missed focus point. Parts of her hair are sharply in focus from what I can see.

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Feb 17, 2016 07:57:17   #
mgstrawn Loc: Atlanta, GA
 
Gitchigumi wrote:
I have the D7100, but focus should be the same... Do you use back-button focus? Or, the default setting using the focus/shutter button? And, which AF mode are you using? How many focus points?


When taking the candid portraits with the grandkids, I use continuous as they are always in motion. With continuous on the D7200 you have great options of focal points, up to 54. I've tried them all! I'm using the focus/shutter button, but it doesn't react in the same way as the other cameras. The 'halfway' push of the shutter button is not as distinct as the other cameras. I have read about the back button focus. I know I'm sounding ignorant, but I don't care! Lol!

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Feb 17, 2016 08:03:35   #
mgstrawn Loc: Atlanta, GA
 
mikeroetex wrote:
Bump up the shutter speed (and consequently the ISO indoors). It appears you are panning with the action at 1/160. You need to get up into the 1/500 range. You may need a slightly faster lens for indoor sports, but the problem is definitely shutter speed. As for your little girl, looks to me like you just missed focus point. Parts of her hair are sharply in focus from what I can see.


With the D5100 I was able to bump up the shutter speed and ISO to get good results. This past Saturday, I used every setting I've ever learned thinking it should work on the 7200, but it didn't. When I bumped up the shutter speed, and adjusted the ISO, it was too noisy. Perhaps it is my lens. I was using the newest Tamron 18-270mm which has always performed great.

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Feb 17, 2016 08:17:05   #
alandg46 Loc: Boerne, Texas
 
The reviews indicate that ISO performance in the D7200 is superlative. But you must get the exposure right to take advantage. Pushing the image in post processing will not work out as well with any camera.

Your lens will not generate digital noise.

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Feb 17, 2016 08:36:48   #
mgstrawn Loc: Atlanta, GA
 
alandg46 wrote:
The reviews indicate that ISO performance in the D7200 is superlative. But you must get the exposure right to take advantage. Pushing the image in post processing will not work out as well with any camera.

Your lens will not generate digital noise.


I didn't mean to imply that my lens generated noise; poor wording on my part. But, you are probably right - exposure is probably the problem. With getting used to the different placement of settings, I may inadvertently not be paying attention to my exposure as I should. Getting frustrated messes up my ability to think clearly! Thank you.

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Feb 17, 2016 08:42:37   #
Morning Star Loc: West coast, North of the 49th N.
 
mgstrawn wrote:


My first difficulty is the focus. I love to shoot candid portraits and my photos are soft. I try to focus on the eyes as I learned to do, but have not had much success. I'm hoping that I 'm just not fully understanding the 7200's focus.

Secondly, I also enjoy shooting sport shots of the grandkids - baseball, basketball & soccer. I just haven't been able to totally 'freeze' the motion as I did with the other cameras. I'll post an example of this.

I have bought books, cheat sheets, etc., but I thought maybe some of you could give me some pointers or recognize what I'm doing wrong. I really have enjoyed the 7200 - it was not hard to learn the basic functions, etc. But so disappointed in my results so far.

Thank You!
br br My first difficulty is the focus. I love t... (show quote)


Because the second photo is a composite, the exif data are gone - to see the exif data the photos need to be uploaded separately with exif intact.

Looking at the exif data, I believe that the problem is depth of field. Your f/stop is only f/4.5, that should probably be set at f/8 or f11.
Your exposure time is 1/160 - too slow to stop action.
Your ISO is already bumped to 1600, but you didn't use a flash.
Given those numbers, you may have to use a flash and hope you can get close enough to the players to have the flash do any good - after you've received permission to use a flash there.

You say you've bought books, cheat-sheets, etc. May I suggest one more, if you have not already got that book and read it: Bryan Peterson's Understanding Exposure.

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Feb 17, 2016 08:48:02   #
davefales Loc: Virginia
 
Valid comments so far, but maybe your lens and camera do not match up well. A start for understanding:
https://luminous-landscape.com/are-your-pictures-out-of-focus/

"Causes of the problem

The main causes of the problem are camera and lens design, combined with manufacturing tolerances of mass produced devices.

Let’s face it, the vast majority of cameras and lenses are mass produced. If the manufacturing tolerances were incredibly tight, and each piece was tweaked and adjusted to perfection, prices would have to rise and quantities would shrink. Many people could not afford these very expensive cameras, and even those who could might have to wait for a long time to get their hands on one because of the limited supply. This would not be a particularly appealing situation.

Instead, things are massed produced to be “within tolerances”, but being within tolerances means that each piece is within a certain range of error that is considered to be “acceptable” by the manufacturer. Also, as most of us have experienced, periodically a piece that is out of spec seems to slip through all quality control and is sold to a customer.

The point I am trying to make is that the sensor will not be exactly where it is supposed to be, the mirror in an SLR will not come to rest in the perfect position, the autofocus system may be mounted just a wee bit off from the perfect position, it may be slightly out of perfect calibration, the focusing screen may be a little thinner or thicker than the spec, it may be placed slightly off in the camera, the lens mount may be slightly deeper or shallower than the spec, etc.

So, the consequence of mass production in large quantities at reasonable prices is that all these small deviations will pile up on top of each other and can cause the AF system in your camera to be out of focus. There is also a statistically significant probability that even if the autofocus system is working superbly, manual focus on the screen does not match the autofocus system on the camera."

You can make back/front focus corrections on your camera.

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Feb 17, 2016 08:52:10   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
mgstrawn wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that my lens generated noise; poor wording on my part. But, you are probably right - exposure is probably the problem. With getting used to the different placement of settings, I may inadvertently not be paying attention to my exposure as I should. Getting frustrated messes up my ability to think clearly! Thank you.


Do you have a different lens to try. I believe it may be the lens rather than the camera. Yes the shutter speed in the basketball shot is way to slow, but if you are generally having this problem with all your shots the problem may be the using that lens on the D7200. Because of manufacturing tolerances a lens that works great on one camera may not work as well on another. even another copy of the same body. I suspect that's why the lens is giving you better results on one body then the other. It can be a pain to use, but your D7200 has a micro adjustment focusing feature to compensate for that. I have the 18-270 and four different Canon bodies and its a little different on each body. Lastly, the 18-270, although a nice general purpose walk around lens, is not terribly sharp towards the lond end.

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Feb 17, 2016 08:53:46   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
davefales wrote:
Valid comments so far, but maybe your lens and camera do not match up well. A start for understanding:
https://luminous-landscape.com/are-your-pictures-out-of-focus/

"Causes of the problem

The main causes of the problem are camera and lens design, combined with manufacturing tolerances of mass produced devices.

Let’s face it, the vast majority of cameras and lenses are mass produced. If the manufacturing tolerances were incredibly tight, and each piece was tweaked and adjusted to perfection, prices would have to rise and quantities would shrink. Many people could not afford these very expensive cameras, and even those who could might have to wait for a long time to get their hands on one because of the limited supply. This would not be a particularly appealing situation.

Instead, things are massed produced to be “within tolerances”, but being within tolerances means that each piece is within a certain range of error that is considered to be “acceptable” by the manufacturer. Also, as most of us have experienced, periodically a piece that is out of spec seems to slip through all quality control and is sold to a customer.

The point I am trying to make is that the sensor will not be exactly where it is supposed to be, the mirror in an SLR will not come to rest in the perfect position, the autofocus system may be mounted just a wee bit off from the perfect position, it may be slightly out of perfect calibration, the focusing screen may be a little thinner or thicker than the spec, it may be placed slightly off in the camera, the lens mount may be slightly deeper or shallower than the spec, etc.

So, the consequence of mass production in large quantities at reasonable prices is that all these small deviations will pile up on top of each other and can cause the AF system in your camera to be out of focus. There is also a statistically significant probability that even if the autofocus system is working superbly, manual focus on the screen does not match the autofocus system on the camera."

You can make back/front focus corrections on your camera.
Valid comments so far, but maybe your lens and cam... (show quote)

Didn't read your post before I posted just below you. We're on the same page.

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Feb 17, 2016 09:05:08   #
davefales Loc: Virginia
 
mwsilvers wrote:
Didn't read your post before I posted just below you. We're on the same page.


I've had that happen before. You start a reply and the page does not refresh while you are working. It certainly can't hurt to hear it twice.

Reply
Feb 17, 2016 14:11:54   #
mikeroetex Loc: Lafayette, LA
 
mgstrawn wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that my lens generated noise; poor wording on my part. But, you are probably right - exposure is probably the problem. With getting used to the different placement of settings, I may inadvertently not be paying attention to my exposure as I should. Getting frustrated messes up my ability to think clearly! Thank you.

Don't get frustrated! :-) you've chosen 2 very hard subjects to shoot, grandkids and indoor basketball. I doubt it's a focus problem with the lens. I use Tamron and Sigma lenses on my D7200 all the time with great results.
Think of yourself as having bought a new sports car after driving a friendly family car for several years. You still know how to drive, but suddenly you have new power and handling.

Indoor basketball has many pitfalls, including dark spots, mixed light temps (flourescent, halogen and/or sunlight) and action. as you zoom your Tamron, you lose an fstop. Like any photography, the secret is to get close! Go down to the endline and shoot at 35-70mm or so, wide open f3.5 and 1/250 or higher shutter and let ISO go auto. Spot meter the exposure on a nearby player instead of matrix averaging the whole floor and you will keep the ISO down. You will only get good shots of your team when they are on your end, so change sides at the half.

As for focus points, just because you have 51, don't feel you have to use them all! I get better results using 9 active on AF-C with my Sigma 70-200 at f4. If you want to see what your auto-focus is analyzing (guessing?), activate all 51, turn them on in the viewfinder and pan the action occasionally pressing the shutter halfway. The red squares will jump all over as you move the camera, searching for the closest object for a focus lock.

Same thing caused the issue on your granddaughter photo I think. I would guess you had all 51 active at a lower aperture. You asked the camera to guess where the closest point to focus was, heard the chirp when centered on her eye, she moved ever so slightly and it grabbed her chin and forehead while you were hitting the shutter. Depth of field will be your friend. Try it again on single point focus and f5.6 or f8. You may lose some bokeh, but eyes will stay more in focus. Especially if you BBF another whole discussion). Remember if you are zoomed in on her face and 5-10 ft away from her, all movement is magnified.
Good luck! I have 3 grand kids and discard 2-5 shots for every 1 keeper, so my tips come from experience!

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Feb 17, 2016 15:48:21   #
fjrwillie Loc: MA
 
mgstrawn wrote:
Hello! I treated myself to the Nikon D7200/18-140mm lens for Christmas. Previously I had the D3100 (awesome little camera on which to learn) and the D5100, which has served me well. I am an avid amateur and learned to shoot confidently in Manual from UHH. I expected a learning curve as there was one going from the 3100 to the 5100, but all my confidence is just about gone!

My first difficulty is the focus. I love to shoot candid portraits and my photos are soft. I try to focus on the eyes as I learned to do, but have not had much success. I'm hoping that I 'm just not fully understanding the 7200's focus.

Secondly, I also enjoy shooting sport shots of the grandkids - baseball, basketball & soccer. I just haven't been able to totally 'freeze' the motion as I did with the other cameras. I'll post an example of this.

I have bought books, cheat sheets, etc., but I thought maybe some of you could give me some pointers or recognize what I'm doing wrong. I really have enjoyed the 7200 - it was not hard to learn the basic functions, etc. But so disappointed in my results so far.

Thank You!
Hello! I treated myself to the Nikon D7200/18-140m... (show quote)


I have quickly read thru the comments. No one has mentioned that even if you have 51 focus points available the camera only uses one when you take the pic.

The focusing should essentially be the same as the 5100. I went from the 5100 to 7100 as well. Your 7200 is an upgrade to the 7100, but both probably operate the same.

You did not state what kind of focus you are using. I normally use single point focus, which enables me to control the focus point. BBF (back button focusing) works wonders with this method.

Willie

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