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Jan 13, 2016 06:02:39   #
Billyspad Loc: The Philippines
 
Comment and critique


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Jan 13, 2016 07:40:10   #
Graham Smith Loc: Cambridgeshire UK
 
Billyspad wrote:
Comment and critique


I can't argue with your street classification because rivers and canals were at one time the main highways of England, the roads and streets.
Perhaps there will be those that say you should have framed it so that the boat was entering the frame rather than leaving it but I often use shots that are framed that way, i sort of like it.

Graham

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Jan 13, 2016 08:02:01   #
jim hill Loc: Springfield, IL
 
Billyspad wrote:
Comment and critique


I tend to agree with Mr. Smith. In his seeking of perfection, however, I am taking an opposing view.

What if the boat were already 50%, give ot take, out of the picture to the right side. That would be something to think about, wouldn't it? It would still convey the "river street" feeling but might lead to more discussion??? How far can we take the term Street. I am not interested in the same old topic as most street shooters, in my limited knowledge of the matter, detest the term "street photographer." I could be mistaken but seems to me I read it somewhere. At 83 I have a difficult time remembering certain things these days.

Oh well, I like the shot but not certain that it really qualifies for Street. We will have to see what others think. Are those trees actually in the Phils? Beautiful setting.

Regards
Jim Hill

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Jan 13, 2016 08:15:40   #
Billyspad Loc: The Philippines
 
Graham Smith wrote:
I can't argue with your street classification because rivers and canals were at one time the main highways of England, the roads and streets.
Perhaps there will be those that say you should have framed it so that the boat was entering the frame rather than leaving it but I often use shots that are framed that way, i sort of like it.

Graham


Your view on streets and highways was exactly the same as mine Graham. This scene is minutes from Stratford upon Avon a very ancient town and inhabited well before roads were the norm.
Re framing like you I often kick against convention and prefer the result. This shot was planned as presented

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Jan 13, 2016 08:22:51   #
Graham Smith Loc: Cambridgeshire UK
 
Billyspad wrote:
Your view on streets and highways was exactly the same as mine Graham. This scene is minutes from Stratford upon Avon a very ancient town and inhabited well before roads were the norm.
Re framing like you I often kick against convention and prefer the result. This shot was planned as presented


As I said Billy, I will often frame to have elements leaving the frame, it becomes more of a "what has happened" shot as opposed to "about to happen"

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Jan 13, 2016 08:24:11   #
Billyspad Loc: The Philippines
 
jim hill wrote:
I tend to agree with Mr. Smith. In his seeking of perfection, however, I am taking an opposing view.

What if the boat were already 50%, give ot take, out of the picture to the right side. That would be something to think about, wouldn't it? It would still convey the "river street" feeling but might lead to more discussion??? How far can we take the term Street. I am not interested in the same old topic as most street shooters, in my limited knowledge of the matter, detest the term "street photographer." I could be mistaken but seems to me I read it somewhere. At 83 I have a difficult time remembering certain things these days.

Oh well, I like the shot but not certain that it really qualifies for Street. We will have to see what others think. Are those trees actually in the Phils? Beautiful setting.

Regards
Jim Hill
I tend to agree with Mr. Smith. In his seeking of ... (show quote)


Jim its shot in Merry Olde England on my recent visit back home. Is it street is something I also hope others join in. Its shot in Stratford upon Avon the home town of William Shakespeare. There was a town or settlement there hundreds of years before the Bards time and that river would have formed a very important highway and travel route before the days of proper roads. So with what appears to be a whole new way of looking at the street genre I feel it fits but would welcome some more views.

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Jan 13, 2016 08:40:49   #
Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)
 
Billyspad wrote:
Jim its shot in Merry Olde England on my recent visit back home. Is it street is something I also hope others join in. Its shot in Stratford upon Avon the home town of William Shakespeare. There was a town or settlement there hundreds of years before the Bards time and that river would have formed a very important highway and travel route before the days of proper roads. So with what appears to be a whole new way of looking at the street genre I feel it fits but would welcome some more views.


Street? Because there are people somewhere doing something?
I don't think so.
Maybe if there were a partially sunk pickup truck in the pond?

I mention that only because I recall an image of a car/truck in the wilderness claimed as sufficient to make it "street"

Time for a "definitional moment" I'd say.

Dave

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Jan 13, 2016 09:05:48   #
Billyspad Loc: The Philippines
 
Uuglypher wrote:
Street? Because there are people somewhere doing something?
I don't think so.
Maybe if there were a partially sunk pickup truck in the pond?

I mention that only because I recall an image of a car/truck in the wilderness claimed as sufficient to make it "street"

Time for a "definitional moment" I'd say.

Dave


Ah but do we need a road or a truck to be street Dave. Some say yay and some say nay. I used to think yay but could now be on the nay side of the house.

And the POND is in fact the glorious River Avon!!

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Jan 13, 2016 09:17:08   #
Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)
 
Billyspad wrote:
Ah but do we need a road or a truck to be street Dave. Some say yay and some say nay. I used to think yay but could now be on the nay side of the house.

And the POND is in fact the glorious River Avon!!


ah! The RIVER Avon! Of well-remembered commercial transportation significance in the Middle Ages. so...had this been rendered in close-stitched fabric it might have been considered "street tapestry" back in the day?

Quite a reach, there, billy!

as one for whom the Big Apple is his natal village, I love "Street". Note...I love it, I don't do it! But I know it when I see it and this "flow gently" sweet creek or river image just doesn't cut it as "street" for me.
Gotta have some obvious urban context.

just gotta!

Dave

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Jan 13, 2016 12:58:01   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
Uuglypher wrote:
ah! The RIVER Avon! Of well-remembered commercial transportation significance in the Middle Ages. so...had this been rendered in close-stitched fabric it might have been considered "street tapestry" back in the day?

Quite a reach, there, billy!

as one for whom the Big Apple is his natal village, I love "Street". Note...I love it, I don't do it! But I know it when I see it and this "flow gently" sweet creek or river image just doesn't cut it as "street" for me.
Gotta have some obvious urban context.

just gotta!

Dave
ah! The RIVER Avon! Of well-remembered commercial... (show quote)

Urban context has no significance for what is or isn't Street Photography. That is fundamental to understanding Street Photography.

Read "ByStander: A History of Street Photography" by Colin Westerbeck and Joel Meyerowitz.

Note the vast amount of Street Photography done by Walker Evens and Dorothea Lange that had no relation to streets nor to anything urban.

"The street as it is defined here might be a crowded boulevard
or a country lane, a park in the city or a boardwalk at the beach,
a lively cafe or a deserted hallway in a tenement, or even a
subway car or the lobby of a theater. It is any public place
where a photographer could take pictures of subjects who were
unknown to him and, whenever possible, unconscious of his
presence."
Bystander: A History of Street Photography, page 35

Clearly the River Avon is "street as it is defined here".

The definition you are using is not of the genre called Street Photography, it is instead a definition of the style of Street that you like. Two very different things.

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Jan 14, 2016 22:31:18   #
Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)
 
Apaflo wrote:
Urban context has no significance for what is or isn't Street Photography. That is fundamental to understanding Street Photography.

Read "ByStander: A History of Street Photography" by Colin Westerbeck and Joel Meyerowitz.

Note the vast amount of Street Photography done by Walker Evens and Dorothea Lange that had no relation to streets nor to anything urban.

"The street as it is defined here might be a crowded boulevard
or a country lane, a park in the city or a boardwalk at the beach,
a lively cafe or a deserted hallway in a tenement, or even a
subway car or the lobby of a theater. It is any public place
where a photographer could take pictures of subjects who were
unknown to him and, whenever possible, unconscious of his
presence."
Bystander: A History of Street Photography, page 35

Clearly the River Avon is "street as it is defined here".

The definition you are using is not of the genre called Street Photography, it is instead a definition of the style of Street that you like. Two very different things.
Urban context has no significance for what is or i... (show quote)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

You seem to be hoping that the earlier genre "Documentary Photography" from which "Street" devolved as a sub-set should, for some unclear reason, adopt the name of one of its parts, thus clouding the nature of the original umbrella term, and badly blurring the once clear meaning of "Street"

I'll add that if you are successful, it may broaden the sorts of image posted here (to an "anything goes if I simply decide to call it "street" ) but will certainly assure that this new section will become a less than ideal place to look for good examples of real "street photography"

You've chosen a strange path by which to increase postings in your section.

just a personal opinion, of course, but one of more pointed significance in preserving the concept of "Street" than any offered to justify the range of...stuff... being accepted here and excused as putative examples of "Street".

I again strongly urge those hoping to get a sense of what "Street" is to Google the works of Cartier-Bresson, Brassai, Friedlander, Winogrand, Wm. Eugene Smith ( his "Pittsburgh" monograph) and even Atget and Louis Hein who were shooting "Street" long before "Street" was recognized as a valid genre.

(I mention Hein because I personally am of the opinion that his bodies of work on child labor abuses and "high steel" construction in NYC are too often ignored and overlooked as early epitomizations of "Street"

Dave

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Jan 14, 2016 23:06:16   #
jim hill Loc: Springfield, IL
 
Uuglypher wrote:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

You seem to be hoping that the earlier genre "Documentary Photography" from which "Street" devolved as a sub-set should, for some unclear reason, adopt the name of one of its parts, thus clouding the nature of the original umbrella term, and badly blurring the once clear meaning of "Street"

I'll add that if you are successful, it may broaden the sorts of image posted here (to an "anything goes if I simply decide to call it "street" ) but will certainly assure that this new section will become a less than ideal place to look for good examples of real "street photography"

You've chosen a strange path by which to increase postings in your section.

just a personal opinion, of course, but one of more pointed significance in preserving the concept of "Street" than any offered to justify the range of...stuff... being accepted here and excused as putative examples of "Street".

I again strongly urge those hoping to get a sense of what "Street" is to Google the works of Cartier-Bresson, Brassai, Friedlander, Winogrand, Wm. Eugene Smith ( his "Pittsburgh" monograph) and even Atget and Louis Hein who were shooting "Street" long before "Street" was recognized as a valid genre.

(I mention Hein because I personally am of the opinion that his bodies of work on child labor abuses and "high steel" construction in NYC are too often ignored and overlooked as early epitomizations of "Street"

Dave
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx br br You seem to be hoping tha... (show quote)


Dave,

This is food for thought. I wonder how many others who are knowledgeable in the photographic arts are, or would be, of the same opinion.

Not knowing much about Street Photography (I have never thought it equal to Fine Art Photography) I can not express an educated opinion.

If you don't mind, however, I have a couple friends teaching in the photographic arts department at the University of Indiana, Bloomington, who are considered to be the leading scholars in the field and I would love to submit your query and a few examples of the work seen here to them for their opinions.

I await your pleasure.

Regards
Jim

(Edit: I am not certain of the legality of lifting images from UHH and posting them somewhere else. Maybe you have an idea regarding that problem.)

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Jan 14, 2016 23:14:06   #
jim hill Loc: Springfield, IL
 
jim hill wrote:
Dave,

This is food for thought. I wonder how many others who are knowledgeable in the photographic arts are, or would be, of the same opinion.

Not knowing much about Street Photography (I have never thought it equal to Fine Art Photography) I can not express an educated opinion.

If you don't mind, however, I have a couple friends teaching in the photographic arts department at the University of Indiana, Bloomington, who are considered to be the leading scholars in the field and I would love to submit your query and a few examples of the work seen here to them for their opinions.

I await your pleasure.

Regards
Jim

(Edit: I am not certain of the legality of lifting images from UHH and posting them somewhere else. Maybe you have an idea regarding that problem.)
Dave, br br This is food for thought. I wonder ho... (show quote)


Ooops!, I must issue a rejoinder regarding my statement about Street not being the equal of Fine Art. In some few cases I am totally in error. The work of Graham Smith and Steve Worland are clearly "Fine Art."

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Jan 14, 2016 23:59:48   #
Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)
 
jim hill wrote:
Dave,

This is food for thought. I wonder how many others who are knowledgeable in the photographic arts are, or would be, of the same opinion.

Not knowing much about Street Photography (I have never thought it equal to Fine Art Photography) I can not express an educated opinion.

If you don't mind, however, I have a couple friends teaching in the photographic arts department at the University of Indiana, Bloomington, who are considered to be the leading scholars in the field and I would love to submit your query and a few examples of the work seen here to them for their opinions.

I await your pleasure.

Regards
Jim

(Edit: I am not certain of the legality of lifting images from UHH and posting them somewhere else. Maybe you have an idea regarding that problem.)
Dave, br br This is food for thought. I wonder ho... (show quote)


Jim,
Somehow you've seriously misinterpreted my words. I've stated a definite and seriously considered opinion. I've posted no "query" of any sort to which I require or request any sort of response or opinions from your or anyone's else's chosen "leading authorities in the field" of photography.

Obviously, you ought present your own queries to whatever leading authorities you may chose.

There is, thus, is no need to wait further in expectation of a statement of "(my) pleasure".

Best regards,
Dave

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Jan 15, 2016 00:40:50   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
jim hill wrote:
Ooops!, I must issue a rejoinder regarding my statement about Street not being the equal of Fine Art. In some few cases I am totally in error. The work of Graham Smith and Steve Worland are clearly "Fine Art."

And of course so was the work of Dorothea Lange, Walker Evens, William Klien, Lee Friedlander and others, decades past and not always done only on urban street settings.

Regardless, Fine Art is not something distinct from Street Photography. It isn't a matter of being equal, it is a fact that Street Photography is always Fine Art (but of course not all Fine Art is Street Photography). It's one bit of turf within a very large fenced off area.

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