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Mar 21, 2015 18:52:29   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
sloscheider wrote:
$1,900 get you a very nice MacBook Pro... has she checked with the college to see what they recomend?

I also find big laptops are well, big... what about a smaller laptop and a good quality monitor that could double as a tv in the dorm? Portability for trips to study groups but big screen when it's needed.


No it doesn't, at least compared to what $1900 buys in a Windows laptop - You'd have to spend close to $3000 if not more to match in in performance.

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Mar 21, 2015 20:45:30   #
rustfarmer
 
Thanks sloscheider, she does want a smaller unit, maybe 11 to 13 inch. Funny how new phones are almost as big as netbooks. Anyway, nice to hear from others about Dell problems so I now it's not just me.

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Mar 21, 2015 22:20:52   #
sloscheider Loc: Minnesota
 
Gene51 wrote:
No it doesn't, at least compared to what $1900 buys in a Windows laptop - You'd have to spend close to $3000 if not more to match in in performance.

No doubt you can get a faster Windows box for the money. I've used Windows machines since version 2 and it was very difficult to spend the money on a Mac but WOW, it really is an exquisite laptop. Bar none it's the most amazing touch pad I've ever used. It's almost like having a Wacom tablet built in. The backup and recovery tools are nothing short of amazing and as simple as sliding a switch to On and selecting a remote drive to use for the backup.

Now THIS is what bugs me about vendors! Here's a $1,500 Dell laptop with a 4K display and tons of features BUT they put a crappy version of the i7 processor in it...

http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15-7548-laptop/pd?oc=dncwq5208s&model_id=inspiron-15-7548-laptop

The benchmark is about 4,000 - compared to my Mac with about 9,100 that I paid $300 more for.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-5500U+%40+2.40GHz

Why would a company do that to customers? My i3 desktop I built last winter has a better benchmark score.... That system only cost me $600 to build.

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Mar 22, 2015 05:38:18   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
sloscheider wrote:
No doubt you can get a faster Windows box for the money. I've used Windows machines since version 2 and it was very difficult to spend the money on a Mac but WOW, it really is an exquisite laptop. Bar none it's the most amazing touch pad I've ever used. It's almost like having a Wacom tablet built in. The backup and recovery tools are nothing short of amazing and as simple as sliding a switch to On and selecting a remote drive to use for the backup.

Now THIS is what bugs me about vendors! Here's a $1,500 Dell laptop with a 4K display and tons of features BUT they put a crappy version of the i7 processor in it...

http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15-7548-laptop/pd?oc=dncwq5208s&model_id=inspiron-15-7548-laptop

The benchmark is about 4,000 - compared to my Mac with about 9,100 that I paid $300 more for.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-5500U+%40+2.40GHz

Why would a company do that to customers? My i3 desktop I built last winter has a better benchmark score.... That system only cost me $600 to build.
No doubt you can get a faster Windows box for the ... (show quote)


Which MBP did you end up getting then?

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Mar 22, 2015 14:03:35   #
sloscheider Loc: Minnesota
 
Gene51 wrote:
Which MBP did you end up getting then?

This one: http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MGXA2LL/A&step=config#

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Mar 22, 2015 18:32:00   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 


I thought so. You have a 2.2 ghz i7, which is old and slow. and you only have 256 gb SSD as your only storage option. The 16 gb of ram is shared with OS and applications.

Now for the same $2000, actually $1970, doing a custom spec system using a Clevo laptop this is what you get:

Sager NP8268 (Clevo P150SM-A)

CPU - 4th Generation Intel® Haswell Core™ i7-4810MQ (2.8GHz - 3.8GHz, 6MB Intel® Smart Cache)

Graphics - NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 870M (3.0GB) GDDR5 PCI-Express
DX11

512 gb SSD boot drive
1 TB 7200 SATA III mechanical drive

24 GB RAM (user upgradeable to 32 gb)

And space for a second SSD, second mechanical drive, and you can upgrade the graphics card or add a second card. Two levels of graphics cards are available - for optimized gaming, and for greater bit depth. The Quadro K610 with 2 gb dedicated VRAM will provide 30 bit color depth for an appropriate external display.

There is no question that the Clevo I spec'd would be considerably faster than the MBP that you purchased, and with 512 gb system drive and 1 TB data drive it would be a while before you ran out of disk space. Expansion capability is considerable, extra hard drives, faster CPU, more memory better graphics card, etc etc. make the Sager/Clevo a much better value.

But this is the deal breaker for me:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1432348

If I had to edit images on a laptop, the Retina display would be last on my list. Compared to the better displays, it definitely does not deliver the goods. There are quite a few better displays for editing photos, like the Dell Precision laptops with PremierColor display or, HP Elitbook Series with DreamColor display, or the Sager/Clevo - larger gamut, low reflectivity, better editing experience.

As a general purpose do it all kind of machine, even for video editing, I have no issues with the MBP, but when it comes to photo editing, especially where color is critical, I find it falls short. This is based on test data analysis and first-hand personal experience. It's hard to go back to a 6 or even an 8 bit screen after editing in 10 bits on a Dell 2413 monitor. If I could get a laptop for $2000 that would give me the option, it's a no-brainer.

BTW, even though the power user community has been begging for 10 bit support, Apple has yet to offer it. It's been available for Windows since Win7.

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Mar 22, 2015 20:36:14   #
sloscheider Loc: Minnesota
 
Gene51 wrote:
I thought so. You have a 2.2 ghz i7, which is old and slow.... and you only have 256 gb SSD as your only storage option. The 16 gb of ram is shared with OS and applications.....

Hope you had fun... I support both platforms in my job and if you read further up in the thread I said you can get faster systems for the money but that's not the only thing to consider and real world performance tests put the 4770HQ slightly faster than the 4810MQ but it's close enough to be irrelevant - they're both Haswell tech.

What I'm suggesting is sometimes, as in college, a 9 hour battery life, lighter weight and compact size can be more important than dual hard drives and dedicated graphics cards....

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Mar 22, 2015 21:45:38   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
sloscheider wrote:
Hope you had fun... I support both platforms in my job and if you read further up in the thread I said you can get faster systems for the money but that's not the only thing to consider and real world performance tests put the 4770HQ slightly faster than the 4810MQ but it's close enough to be irrelevant - they're both Haswell tech.

What I'm suggesting is sometimes, as in college, a 9 hour battery life, lighter weight and compact size can be more important than dual hard drives and dedicated graphics cards....
Hope you had fun... I support both platforms in my... (show quote)


In the old days, we used to select machines around the intended applications - 9 hr batteries and light weight are fine, as long as the app is adequately powered. And if a machine is slower, short on disk space, and just average quality or slightly less on graphics - then what is the point? That being said, I do like the Mac OS, I don't care at all for the severely limited options. I've been building custom PCs, mostly engineering workstations for architects and engineers, and to a lesser degree graphics professionals since 1983 - probably have several thousand under my belt at this point in time. As I said, as a general purpose (non-specialty) machine, it's fine, if a little pricey. If you want light, you can get that, if you want long lasting battery, take out the mechanical hard drive and dedicated graphics, etc etc etc. There is nothing "special" or "magic" about the MBP, but I am sure you already know that.

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Mar 27, 2015 06:30:31   #
OnDSnap Loc: NE New Jersey
 
sloscheider wrote:
$1,900 get you a very nice MacBook Pro... has she checked with the college to see what they recomend?

I also find big laptops are well, big... what about a smaller laptop and a good quality monitor that could double as a tv in the dorm? Portability for trips to study groups but big screen when it's needed.


My daughter and I do a lot of Architectural Cad work (it's my business) for me/we both use 17-18" laptops for a very good reason, more real estate, we do a lot of onsite as-builts where we take the laptops to a job site and will measure the buildings with lasers, when we're done, we have a 3D representation of the building,(BIM) ...multiple menus and libraries need to be open along with at times a view of 20,000 sf. of floor area ...using smaller LT's is ridiculous to even consider due to wasted time with constantly having to zoom and pan, open and close panels, libraries & menus. Plus when using multiple views (split screen) showing a floor plan plus multiple 3D views....even a magnifying glass wouldn't help.
As far going to a Mac, several of my software companies don't allow using cross platforms (PC & Mac) on the same license. So that's also out of the question, especially when additional licenses can run in the thousands.

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Mar 27, 2015 06:32:22   #
OnDSnap Loc: NE New Jersey
 
Gene51 wrote:
In the old days, we used to select machines around the intended applications - 9 hr batteries and light weight are fine, as long as the app is adequately powered. And if a machine is slower, short on disk space, and just average quality or slightly less on graphics - then what is the point? That being said, I do like the Mac OS, I don't care at all for the severely limited options. I've been building custom PCs, mostly engineering workstations for architects and engineers, and to a lesser degree graphics professionals since 1983 - probably have several thousand under my belt at this point in time. As I said, as a general purpose (non-specialty) machine, it's fine, if a little pricey. If you want light, you can get that, if you want long lasting battery, take out the mechanical hard drive and dedicated graphics, etc etc etc. There is nothing "special" or "magic" about the MBP, but I am sure you already know that.
In the old days, we used to select machines around... (show quote)


:thumbup:

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Mar 27, 2015 06:42:51   #
OnDSnap Loc: NE New Jersey
 
Thanks everyone for your input, more fuel for the fire so to speak,
As Gene mentioned years ago it was software first, then build the machine to run it, I to have been doing Cad, both Engineering and Architectural since about 1992 (second release of AutoCad) DOS versions, and doing engineered drawings with tolerances at tight as +-.0001...and needing to plot overlays to withing +-.001 at 50-100X magnification. And now with all the 3D work I do now, Speed, power, resolution, you name it, is a must...

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Mar 27, 2015 06:47:26   #
Haydon
 
Home PC's should be considered first over the convenience of laptops. You not only pay more but your get overcharged with significantly reduced performance at a premium price.

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Mar 27, 2015 06:54:47   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Haydon wrote:
Home PC's should be considered first over the convenience of laptops. You not only pay more but your get overcharged with significantly reduced performance at a premium price.


This is incorrect. You are looking at the wrong laptops. Yes, there is a small premium for the convenience of portability, but you are not being "overcharged" nor are you getting significantly reduced performance at a premium price. This might apply to Apple computers, but the last time I checked, a 15" laptop, with 32 gb ram, 2 gb dedicated vram on a 10 bit workstation-class graphics card, 7200 rpm mechanical drive, 512 gb SSD boot drive, and an i7 4710Q cpu clocked at 3.8 ghz is just around $2,000. You can get a cheaper "Home" pc, but I would not want to edit on one. A comparable desktop PC to match the specs of the laptop would probably cost in the neighborhood of $1800 with a 24" 8 bit IPS display. Of course you can always opt to trade down performance to save money in either case.

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Mar 27, 2015 06:55:37   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
OnDSnap wrote:
Thanks everyone for your input, more fuel for the fire so to speak,
As Gene mentioned years ago it was software first, then build the machine to run it, I to have been doing Cad, both Engineering and Architectural since about 1992 (second release of AutoCad) DOS versions, and doing engineered drawings with tolerances at tight as +-.0001...and needing to plot overlays to withing +-.001 at 50-100X magnification. And now with all the 3D work I do now, Speed, power, resolution, you name it, is a must...
Thanks everyone for your input, more fuel for the ... (show quote)


I was one of the first Autocad dealers in the NY Metro area back in 1985. :)

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Mar 27, 2015 09:20:00   #
OnDSnap Loc: NE New Jersey
 
Gene51 wrote:
I was one of the first Autocad dealers in the NY Metro area back in 1985. :)


I might have bought from you...(small world if so). I don't remember from whom I purchased my 1st version of AC from, I think it was version 2.5 or 2.8, to long ago....I know I bought all my HP Plotters from HP in Paramus and Rochelle PK, NJ. Back in 90's to 2005. I may have delt a time or two with Robotech in Hoboken. Now with subscriptions, I don't have to go anywhere. I've gone through/used more cad packages than I care to remember. From the original Data Cad, Pro E, Solid Works , even took Cati-Dessualt for a whirl for engineering projects, AC Revit, Chief Architect and Achicad for my Architectural projects. Remember when it was JUST AutoCad ARC & MEC. :)

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