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Sep 15, 2014 17:55:36   #
Travesty Loc: Chicago Burbs, USA
 
If I am breaking a rule, please let me know. My intentions are not to override anyone else.. I take a very large volume of images and probably average a thread a day....

Not sure how to take this, " Maybe if you feel your threads are so inspirational that the forum would be in trouble if you didn't get 2, 3, or 4 of your thread published in the digest each day, we could petition Admin to open a section just for those pictures the rest of us really need to see each day for our daily inspiration"...

Sounds like bitter sarcasm to me..

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Sep 15, 2014 18:16:13   #
oldtigger Loc: Roanoke Virginia-USA
 
gessman wrote:
....
I'd like to say something to the good folks who post often in the picture gallery. Some of us are probably unaware of how our actions are impacting other members. Several of us are posting 2, 3, 4, even 5 threads in one day, often with only one picture in each one. I would like to appeal to each of you to put all those images you want to share on a given day into one thread rather than putting one image in each thread. .......... Please think about what you are doing and see if you can't let some others have a shot at the list of daily submissions in the Daily Digest.
.... br color=blue I'd like to say something to t... (show quote)


You have been viewed more than 126 thousand times, how much exposure do you want?

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Sep 15, 2014 18:22:48   #
gessman Loc: Colorado
 
Travesty wrote:
If I am breaking a rule, please let me know. My intentions are not to override anyone else.. I take a very large volume of images and probably average a thread a day....

Not sure how to take this, " Maybe if you feel your threads are so inspirational that the forum would be in trouble if you didn't get 2, 3, or 4 of your thread published in the digest each day, we could petition Admin to open a section just for those pictures the rest of us really need to see each day for our daily inspiration"...

Sounds like bitter sarcasm to me..
If I am breaking a rule, please let me know. My in... (show quote)


You aren't breaking a rule unless you consider being discourteous to the other members by submitting multiple threads daily that others are deprived of an opportunity to get their threads published so they can get feedback on their work.

As far as the part about being inspirational, that was a little tongue-in-cheek barb, perhaps a little whimsically sarcastic in the event that the shoe should fit. We do have some members who feel they could have probably instructed that guy whose name I am loathe to utter whose initials are A. A. You are not one of the perpetual ones who constantly overuse the limited resources that this was aimed at so unless you choose to put yourself into that category, it wasn't aimed at you. Further, I have no reason to be bitter. I've had my fair share of threads published in the 3 years I've been here and could probably still be still doing that on nearly a daily basis if I chose. I presume you know how to look up a person's threads. Have a look if you have the urge.

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Sep 15, 2014 18:31:54   #
gessman Loc: Colorado
 
oldtigger wrote:
You have been viewed more than 126 thousand times, how much exposure do you want?


LOL. I don't need or want any more exposure as I have said a few times today and just repeated it again to Travesty who thought this was all about personal bitterness on my part which it certainly isn't. I just kept seeing this handful of people dominating the resources that everyone should be able to enjoy and thought it needed to be brought out into the open and discussed. I've had several people say something to me about not being able to get a thread in the Digest and thought it might be interesting to see what the situation could be that was behind that. I'm sure it goes deeper than I was able to dig but I did spot some of it. Why, are you offended?

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Sep 15, 2014 18:40:59   #
Travesty Loc: Chicago Burbs, USA
 
gessman wrote:
You aren't breaking a rule unless you consider being discourteous to the other members by submitting multiple threads daily that others are deprived of an opportunity to get their threads published so they can get feedback on their work.

As far as the part about being inspirational, that was a little tongue-in-cheek barb, perhaps a little whimsically sarcastic in the event that the shoe should fit. We do have some members who feel they could have probably instructed that guy whose name I am loathe to utter whose initials are A. A. You are not one of the perpetual ones who constantly overuse the limited resources that this was aimed at so unless you choose to put yourself into that category, it wasn't aimed at you. Further, I have no reason to be bitter. I've had my fair share of threads published in the 3 years I've been here and could probably still be still doing that on nearly a daily basis if I chose. I presume you know how to look up a person's threads. Have a look if you have the urge.
You aren't breaking a rule unless you consider bei... (show quote)


I try to be nothing but polite and courteous in the forums as well as show my work like anyone else.. The fact that you called me out by name even if misspelled, in a public thread was probably not the best approach in my opinion.. It is not a "If the shoe fits wear it" statement when names are actually used... No need to look up your threads, because you have already self proclaimed yourself as the better Man by the way you do things... I just would not use public slander as an approach to what may be a real problem that should be examined and I would be happy to comply if the Admins wanted to change the guidelines...

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Sep 15, 2014 18:43:58   #
RE Loc: California
 
gessman wrote:
Well, as you can see, this thread didn't make it into today's Daily Digest and what happens to a thread that doesn't make the list there fast dies off into oblivion as this one did overnight last night. I went to bed at 2:00 mountain time and because I replied to you late this thread got pumped back up to the top of the gallery list as all threads do but by 7:00 this morning it had slipped on to page 5 of this gallery list. With about 30 threads listed in the gallery list, by this thread dropping to page 5 by this morning indicates that around 150 comments on other threads were made between 2:00 am and 7:00 am, my time - mountain time. When I replied to "old tigger" this morning it moved back up to the top of page 1. It was sliding fast until you posted this and that put it back up on top of the list of topics with the latest activity. My thread has had 156 views and 11 comments and dropped to page 5.

Occasionally, a topic will be submitted and won't make the next day's Daily Digest but will be held over until the second day after it was submitted but that isn't the norm. The norm is that if your thread doesn't make the next day's Daily Digest it starts to drop to a lower page with every 30 times someone posts on another thread. It appears that Admin randomly picks the threads that will be shown in the Daily Digest based mostly on the order they are received so the people from the UK are usually up top in the first few spots since they are 5 to 6 hours ahead of those on the east coast of the U. S. Then it starts to appear to be more random after that with people on the east coast who get up earlier than the rest of us in the U. S. get posted. Admin, perhaps with the aid of some moderators, moves some threads around that are inappropriately submitted in the wrong classification and can decide which threads will die a fast death or not. This being a privately owned forum, admin retains all rights to do what he chooses without regard for any other commitment. Obviously Admin wasn't impressed with this submission and without further comment it will be on page 10 in two days and the people who work off of the Daily Digest will never see this thread and people like you who work off of the gallery list rather than the Daily Digest won't be seeing it again so my request to those people I tried to reach will rapidly dissipate into thin air.

While I don't think it is the case, Admin's only motivation I can think of would be to conserve on server storage space by favoring submissions with only one image that has to be stored and hence my suggestion to all those who submit 2, 3, 4, or 5 threads every day with just one image may be receiving preferential treatment in the thread selection for the Daily Digest. Admin does monitor many of the submissions and I expect to hear from him on this one. We've talked before. LOL. I don't think anything I've tried to do here will change any current practices so I will use another approach to suggesting to those people who are a little more prolific than needed to see if they can't moderate the number of threads they submit, even though it is clearly not my role. I just want to say that while this is not a "sour grapes" thread 4 of my last 5 submissions have not made the Daily Digest and I know other long time members who haven't been able to get a thread in the digest either. We've all had our share of threads posted since joining up but now and then when we submit one a month or so, we would still like to see it make the digest list.

It's just ridiculous when Bob Yankle, Sylvias, jwt, Angela K, Regis, Ronbo, Erv, RE, Joer, Linda from Maine, Basquelady, tainkc, Dook, Colo43, Rob48, Travasty, Fvs (although not right lately) and several others to a lessor degree, all of whom normally get at least one thread a day in the Digest and some days get 2, 3, even 4 threads in the digest on a given day while each day 130 to 170 other members can't get one a month there. Admin likes to keep hands off so unless this is brought out into the open, it most likely won't come to his attention. I hate to be the one who brings it up but it does seem as though it is time to do something about it. If it's not dealt with it will only get worse. One guy yesterday submitted five threads day before yesterday and didn't get a single one of them in yesterday's Digest while another guy who regularly submits up to five a day has had 9 in the Digest in the past 5 days, most all with only one image in each thread. I will say that it is hard to get an exact fix on the number of submissions for each day that do and do not make the Digest because some submitted early on the 12th made it into the digest for the 12th and some rolled over to the 13th and may have even made it into the 14th but I didn't check for the 14th to see when all the threads were submitted. It was not my intent to get Admin to alter his practices but simply to reach the members who are going overboard in their submissions and depriving all the other members from ever getting a shot at having some decent feedback for their shots which can bolster people's sagging impression of their own efforts. It doesn't hurt to get a little encouragement now and then especially for beginners and not so necessary for others who have had lots of years of doing this - like me. It doesn't bother me to not make the Digest but it does bother a lot of other, lesser experienced people.

Using today as an example, jwt had 5 threads selected for display in the Daily Digest, five from one person while at least 150 other members got none.
Well, as you can see, this thread didn't make it i... (show quote)


Hello gessman, I nearly missed that you used my name in a less than positive light. :-( I am not sure how I have upset you, I did do a quick check of yours posts and it is evident that your posts (did not look at all of your posts) had good coverage with multiple responses (some were as long as 9 pages.)

I also did a self audit of my posts and found that usually I post one topic not several as you made it sound. There have been a few occasions that I posted more than one, recently due to a trip to Alaska. There have even been occasions when I did not post for several days or more.

I too have a list of my favorites and I check those folks pretty often, so yes they may rise to the top when folks comment on their posts. I also make a concerted effort to go to pages 3 ,4, 5 etc. to see what others posted that I may have missed.

Truly Sir, it is not kind to call folks out in such a public fashion when in most cases they would not have a clue.

I truly wish you well and hope in the future your posts get the attention you desire.

Please note there have been several of mine that have gone away with no notice as well, it is just how things are.

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Sep 15, 2014 19:35:55   #
gessman Loc: Colorado
 
Travesty wrote:
I try to be nothing but polite and courteous in the forums as well as show my work like anyone else.. The fact that you called me out by name even if misspelled, in a public thread was probably not the best approach in my opinion.. It is not a "If the shoe fits wear it" statement when names are actually used... No need to look up your threads, because you have already self proclaimed yourself as the better Man by the way you do things... I just would not use public slander as an approach to what may be a real problem that should be examined and I would be happy to comply if the Admins wanted to change the guidelines...
I try to be nothing but polite and courteous in th... (show quote)


Ok. I don't care to keep going back and forth with you on this so I'll start by apologizing for my egregious error of misspelling your uhh avatar handle. I didn't call you out by name - I included you in a group of people that a certain truth applied to. I would imagine that you could find a few people in uhh who would say that I too am a polite person. You can also find some who would disagree with that based on our conversation and the circumstances that provoked it. I am not a pretentious person full of himself and thinking he is better than anyone so none of what you had to say applies to me especially the part about slander. For it to be slander my understanding is that what I said has to be has to be false and made up by me and everything I said about the group of people you were lumped in with was totally accurate and verifiable. I will agree that I could have avoided using names and I wouldn't ordinarily do that under any circumstances but I did in this instance. Now, I admitted that you were not a habitual repeater of the discourtesy that is occurring but you have chosen to take umbrage with me and pursue it as though it were a serious problem when it isn't. Where you go from here is your option but we won't be discussing it any further at this time. I am regretful that you are offended but then it was never my intention to offend anyone and I thought I made that clear. You have a good evening.

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Sep 15, 2014 19:55:57   #
vicksart Loc: Novato, CA -earthquake country
 
gessman wrote:
Thank you for the reply. I've been agonizing about this for some time and hesitant to say anything about it but it seemed as though the time had come. I really don't lay claim to totally understanding how uhh works but I feel like the intent wasn't to allow about 30 people an opportunity to totally absorb all the benefit from what's available in uhh when it comes to feedback and unless things have changed, Admin doesn't like to micromanage uhh so I thought I would suggest a little more sharing attitude from a few folks in hopes that some of the lessor experienced members could get some feedback. There are about 40 to 50 members daily taking turns at accessing the 35 allocated slots for threads to be published in the Daily Digest each day. If just those folks would only submit one thread each it would at least allow some other people a chance to get in and get some feedback.

I would have preferred that my moose shots got displayed but am not the slightest upset that they didn't. You and one other response is all I've had up to now about this and the other one was a bit testy but perhaps that person will give it some thought and realize what I'm saying here and do something about it so others can have a shot now and then to share the limited resources. I appreciate you viewing what I've said in a positive way and thank you again for your response on behalf of the other lessor experienced members. You really have stepped up your game a lot.
color=green Thank you for the reply. I've been a... (show quote)



I'm really surprised your wonderful moose shots didn't get displayed. Obviously, I wouldn't have found them if you hadn't given me the link.

Any improvement I've experienced is due to advice I've gotten here on the forum. I've also been exposed to the results others have gotten with various camera/lens combinations and have made some purchases based on what I've seen and liked.

It's helpful when others voice opinions in the form of critiques as well, although people in the gallery section tend hold back a little unless they're asked for specific feedback. I think I'm guilty of giving positive responses when shots are not quite deserving. That's one of the problems with that section. There's a way to give honest but helpful feedback without being mean, but to put an "excellent" stamp on every post not only loses impact, but it's not helpful, and to some degree the person giving the response loses credibility. Subjective responses like "I like it" are possibly a way of getting around this issue.

All of this said, I believe you're on the right track of suggesting people try to limit the number of posts they make on a given day...or perhaps during the week. Mondays tend to be filled with posts from people who have spent the weekend shooting and editing. Why not wait a day or two? The other thing might be for people to refrain from posting something that may not be quite good enough and attempt to post their very best recent shots in one thread as you suggested. Of course that's very subjective, too. Each of us has a little of that need to share what in our own opinion might be quite wonderful. Others might not think so. Looking back, I've certainly had my share of bad images that I've posted. Hopefully I've learned from them.

New members should be given some latitude here when they're new to the process and trying to learn. Another idea might be to have a beginner's day. For example every Thursday could be limited to posts of people new to photography, and the more experienced folks could chime in to offer advice.

It's hard to know where to draw the line. I guess your idea of having people use good judgement and not overwhelm the system is the best approach. I've rambled on quite a bit and have probably clogged the works with my thoughts. The bottom line is, your argument is valid. Now a remedy needs to be put in place. I'm on board if you need back up. -Vicki

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Sep 15, 2014 19:59:54   #
tainkc Loc: Kansas City
 
Well, Damn it! I am offended that you did not put me at #1 on your list. Seriously, i did not know how it all worked. I will try not to hog things. I always found it amazing that I see a post in the digest that is new to me and it already has 10 pages of responses by the time I see it. I mean, c'mon! I might make a single post and get one or two responses even if it is a good one. Then angler comes along and posts a single flower and he has 10 pages of responses.

I guess nobody likes me : (

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Sep 15, 2014 20:22:27   #
Travesty Loc: Chicago Burbs, USA
 
gessman wrote:
Ok. I don't care to keep going back and forth with you on this so I'll start by apologizing for my egregious error of misspelling your uhh avatar handle. I didn't call you out by name - I included you in a group of people that a certain truth applied to. I would imagine that you could find a few people in uhh who would say that I too am a polite person. You can also find some who would disagree with that based on our conversation and the circumstances that provoked it. I am not a pretentious person full of himself and thinking he is better than anyone so none of what you had to say applies to me especially the part about slander. For it to be slander my understanding is that what I said has to be has to be false and made up by me and everything I said about the group of people you were lumped in with was totally accurate and verifiable. I will agree that I could have avoided using names and I wouldn't ordinarily do that under any circumstances but I did in this instance. Now, I admitted that you were not a habitual repeater of the discourtesy that is occurring but you have chosen to take umbrage with me and pursue it as though it were a serious problem when it isn't. Where you go from here is your option but we won't be discussing it any further at this time. I am regretful that you are offended but then it was never my intention to offend anyone and I thought I made that clear. You have a good evening.
Ok. I don't care to keep going back and forth wit... (show quote)


Remember this was not initiated by me, but I do feel the need to defend myself since you did call me out in a thread I was not even participating in...

"I didn't call you out by name" Really?

"Now, I admitted that you were not a habitual repeater of the discourtesy that is occurring but you have chosen to take umbrage with me and pursue it as though it were a serious problem when it isn't."

Then why you felt the need to mention me and make me a part of this is really a mystery then, and we would not even be doing this... I am sure if I used your name in a thread that you were not participating in, you or anyone else would have something to say, certainly when in a negative manner... I would think the Admins would find concern in this more than people you feel post too often.. Posts like this can be a cancer.. I am done here and if you ever feel a need to address a problem or discuss anything with me you can PM me and not call me out in a public forum certainly in a negative manner....

P.S. Your sarcastic apology referring to the misspelling instead of the real issue really is childlike ..... Travesty

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Sep 15, 2014 20:24:17   #
gessman Loc: Colorado
 
RE wrote:
Hello gessman, I nearly missed that you used my name in a less than positive light. :-( I am not sure how I have upset you, I did do a quick check of yours posts and it is evident that your posts (did not look at all of your posts) had good coverage with multiple responses (some were as long as 9 pages.)


Hello R.E. I don't feel I used your name in vain. I didn't use it in reference to some kind of moral turpitude problem or accuse you of doing anything illegal or anything like that and actually, you haven't upset me. I'm not upset. I merely presented an ongoing discourtesy that some of our members are treating some of our other members to and not in a slanderous manner. I simply pointed out how the actions of some of our members are discourteous to some fo our other members, in my opinion. As for my threads, you rightly point out that I have been real lucky and have gotten quite a bit of participation, well beyond the 9 pages you allude to but in fact one thread went for 27 pages and another 37 but as I have said several times today, what I brought is not about me. It's about all the people, especially newbies, who can't seem to get a thread open in the Daily Digest due to some older members submitting multiple threads some days, some more than others. You are not one of the constant offenders but I just grabbed a few names of those who have recently had multiple threads while roughly 150 other people's single submitted thread bounced off into cyberspace almost immediately. I thought I would be making a suggestion to some mature people who would see what I was saying in a mature, intelligent, and kind way but that has fallen a little short unfortunately.

RE wrote:
I also did a self audit of my posts and found that usually I post one topic not several as you made it sound. There have been a few occasions that I posted more than one, recently due to a trip to Alaska. There have even been occasions when I did not post for several days or more.


Does that mean that I made a mistake and didn't see your name on multiple threads on the same day lately?

RE wrote:
I too have a list of my favorites and I check those folks pretty often, so yes they may rise to the top when folks comment on their posts. I also make a concerted effort to go to pages 3 ,4, 5 etc. to see what others posted that I may have missed.


All people's threads go to the top of the gallery when someone posts on their thread. Nothing unusual there nor do I recall addressing that as an issue and it is admirable of you to be so loyal to your friends and make a concerted effort to not miss anything they have put in a thread.

RE wrote:
Truly Sir, it is not kind to call folks out in such a public fashion when in most cases they would not have a clue.


You're right RE. I probably shouldn't have done that and I'll thereby apologize to you most profusely although it isn't as though I said something about you like some might say about Paris Hilton or someone like that. I merely said that some of us aren't being very courteous to others of us and delineated how that was happening, and offered a simple solution that most kind and considerate folks would have accepted in the spirit in which it was offered.

RE wrote:
I truly wish you well and hope in the future your posts get the attention you desire.


...and likewise to you ma'am. I don't post a thread that often and getting attention has never been a strong point of mine. Actually, I'm a bit of an introvert who generally shuns the limelight unlike many who frequent uhh, not to mention any names of course.

RE wrote:
Please note there have been several of mine that have gone away with no notice as well, it is just how things are.


How do you feel about that when it happens and how will you feel in the future knowing that there are a few people in uhh who have figured out how to get 3, 4, or even 5 threads in the Digest every day and that they are using thread space that could go to you and 3 or 4 other people on those days? Did you read where we had one person get 5 threads in today's Digest and one guy yesterday submitted 5 threads and got none in the Digest. It sounds like you work off the gallery list and not the Digest but most people wait on the email and work off the Digest and don't even know about the gallery list you and others use. In three years I can count the number of times I have used the gallery list - always work off the Digest. you can submit a thread and if it doesn't make the Digest it can go without ever being seen by anyone who wants to comment on it and be off of page one of the gallery list and on it's way to never being seen by anyone you know whereas if it makes the Digest, all your friends have a good chance of seeing it but if a couple of people have 5 threads posted on one digest and a few more, say 5, have 2 or 3 threads each on that same Digest, the chances of you thread getting on there are slim to none since there are 130 to 170 threads submitted for publication each day. How do you feel about all that. you stay out most of the day when it's really too cold to be out comfortably but you want to catch those eagles and you do, and you haul them home and process them and post them on uhh and they skip out into cyberspace within an hour and nobody sees them. Would you really like that to happen often? Ok, so you're not a constant and repeated person who posts multiple threads. To the extend that you think you have been insulted by me, please accept my apology, especially if you can truthfully answer my questions.

I hope you have a good evening and do so with full knowledge that I am in no way upset by you or anything you have or have not done. Let your conscience will be your guide. I don't perceive it to be my station in life to be of any misery to you. Have a good evening.

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Sep 15, 2014 20:39:10   #
gessman Loc: Colorado
 
tainkc wrote:
Well, Damn it! I am offended that you did not put me at #1 on your list. Seriously, i did not know how it all worked. I will try not to hog things. I always found it amazing that I see a post in the digest that is new to me and it already has 10 pages of responses by the time I see it. I mean, c'mon! I might make a single post and get one or two responses even if it is a good one. Then angler comes along and posts a single flower and he has 10 pages of responses.

I guess nobody likes me : (
Well, Damn it! I am offended that you did not put... (show quote)


Hey Tom... Thanks for a sane response. This is really very simple - if everyone who wants to post ten images a day would just toss 'em into one thread there would be room for others to have a thread too and there'd be no controversary. :thumbup:

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Sep 15, 2014 20:50:45   #
STVest Loc: LA - that's Lower Alabama
 
Okay. Here's what I don't understand. You log-on to UHH and up pops their home page. The home page lists all of the sub-forums in a large font, Bold, Blue, and Underlined. If you click on one of those categories, up pops a list of all postings.

But, most people scroll all the way to the bottom of that page to click on "Latest Digest" which is listed in the smallest font used on the page. Or they wait for their daily email to tell 'em where to go, what to see, and what to do when they get there. Really??

I would like to hear how many people use which access method. In order to not exert any influence, I'll leave it to all of you to figure out which method I use to access posts.
What method do you use?

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Sep 15, 2014 21:00:12   #
tainkc Loc: Kansas City
 
gessman wrote:
Hey Tom... Thanks for a sane response. This is really very simple - if everyone who wants to post ten images a day would just toss 'em into one thread there would be room for others to have a thread too and there'd be no controversary. :thumbup:
Interesting. The only thing is that for me, it was a way of unwinding late at night. Now that I have a new job working 12 - 14 hours a day, I have a hard time even staying awake. Anyway, with me, I like to entertain as you know. But I can cool it. However, with my way of thinking, sometimes I have some photos that seem to have more impact if they are just posted as a single photo instead of lumping the together. But since you mentioned how things work, I would rather forgo that because I actually enjoy looking at other's photos a whole bunch! If I am preventing other people from their posts from being seen, I have no problem with your suggestion. No way am I insulted (as you know, that is almost impossible anyway). All kidding aside, I am probably the #1 offender of picture posting and I can easily step aside and still make worthwhile posts in lesser amounts if this helps.

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Sep 15, 2014 21:02:01   #
oldtigger Loc: Roanoke Virginia-USA
 
STVest wrote:
...I would like to hear how many people use which access method. In order to not exert any influence, I'll leave it to all of you to figure out which method I use to access posts.
What method do you use?


i would never consider going anywhere but 'newest topics'

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