thegrover Loc: Yorba Linda, CA

cheineck Loc: Hobe Sound, FL

Interesting, but the buck stops with Obama and his top level administrators. I'm not trying to be a wise guy, but BO and his staff would put the blame on a janitor if they could get away with it…and they just might. I ran a company for years and If I ever blamed one of my employees for the companies failure I would be a sorry excuse of a man, to myself and my clients. BO is that sorry excuse.

Bob Smith Loc: Banjarmasin

This is a really interesting article the insurance companies obviously stand to lose a massive amount of income and are doing their best to discredit Obama. Big bucks win every time.
Personally I cant understand the problem, over here we run the national health which is run from contributions relative to the earnings of persons contributing. I have spent my life contributing and have not had to pay when I or my family have had problems. I am lucky I worked in a fairly highly paid job so I possibly could have had private insurance which is an option here if you want it.
I do not begrudge poorer people the right to health care and from what I read here most of the people who oppose Obamacare do begrudge poorer people the right to the health care they cannot afford. Most of the comments about poorer people on this site are scandalous, pigeonholing them all as lazy scroungers. I note that most of the people who do the pigeonholing have had the good fortune to be privileged with a good life. They should remember not all people are born talented, rich,lucky or even given the chance to get a job that they can work hard at.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

BS... Article is nothing but progressive spin.

cheineck Loc: Hobe Sound, FL

:thumbup:

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Here you go the Washington Post also took a look at this and earlier today gave Obama some more Pinocchios... Go figure.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Nobody hates the poor or wants to deny the poor anything, we do not want your healthcare or your taxes, we do not want government intrusion into our lives... You may like it and think it all better, I wish my American counter parts who felt as you do would hop over the pond and join you in the UK. America is unique, they want to give it up and become another UK... there are others of us here who want no part of it.

cheineck Loc: Hobe Sound, FL

Geff. The insurance companies are worse than banks and ObamaCare offers them many more loopholes to deny risk, raise premiums, and refuse claims. In fact, they are banks in a literal sense… same operating rules, and poor ethics. ObamaCare has empowered them.

thegrover Loc: Yorba Linda, CA

Sorry to hear you feel that way. I personally know the writer and I know he put a lot of serious research into it. He did not write it as spin. He was searching for the truth. Maybe you should try reading it again.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Nobody denies that there is a problem, but Obamacare is not the fix... It is a grand scheme that is not going to work.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Grover, maybe tomorrow I will reread the article, but from what I read your friend is cherry picking certain facts and discounting others and I don't feel that it is complete and I also feel that it serves to excuse our president and the administration for misleading the country and there is no excuse for his actions... blaming insurance companies, or even promoting that the president did not understand the law does not cut it, he was told but he chose the political alternative, just as he always does. It is the only thing that he is good at, he has no other ability other than as a political operative. Watching him for the last 5 years has hardened me where he is concerned and I afford him no excuse, he has asked for and been honored by the American people with the most important job in the world, he damn sure ought to make a stronger effort in getting it right.

You did see that I posted the Washington Post evaluation of the same topic and they are not in agreement with the article you linked. The Post is hardly a right wing source.

thegrover Loc: Yorba Linda, CA

That is okay, we can agree to disagree. You do not need to. reread it. We are both reasonably locked into our positions.
I do appreciate hearing what you think and I do take it into consideration. We will see what happens. I am not afraid to be right and I am not afraid to be wrong.

Bob Smith Loc: Banjarmasin

Blurryeyed I have no doubt that you do care about the poor as I have noticed that your comments on UH are usually more balanced than some. What confuses people over here is the fanatical opposition to something that is the norm over here i.e. the national health can you please enlighten me what exactly the problem is?
Can you also explain to me why I do find strange the fear that comes over often in this forum that the US of Government is suddenly going to turn into a socialist state do Americans honestly in their heart of hearts think that will happen? As you pointed out to me some time ago you are a republic and the same as the UK over this side of the pond can vote any politicians out of office.
Another fear also seems to come over in this forum, persons breaking into your houses I question how many times does this happen is it a regular thing as some Hoggers seem obsessed with this scenario to justify the use of firearms.
I am lucky to have only come into contact with firearms twice in my life once during military service and through my son who is a member of the police armed squad. The fear of firearms does not generally come to mind over here and when firearms are used in any way it usually results in major press coverage because it is so rare. I am not saying that you should not bear arms that is your right but if you are prepared to accept firearms as a way of life you must also be prepared to accept the consequences of unfortunate incidents like school shootings.
As for your comment about US citizens coming over to the UK many have done so and are more than welcome.
I do not mean to criticize your way of life in any way as I think that both our countries have good and bad points, I only would like to be enlightened on some of the gripes that crop up regularly. One thing that does infuriate me on UH is the fact that Republicans and Democrats can't seem to find common ground and refuse to see any merit in the others idea's. I think if president Obama gave everyone a million dollars wrapped in a rubber band some Republicans would ask why it was not in an envelope.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

I guess that the bottom line is that there are those of us who just don't have much confidence in our government to do things right.

Many questions come to bare when you consider nationalized healthcare and I guess that many people in this country just do not trust our government to get it right.

How much does the government really deserve to be allowed to collect in taxes, already one in five dollars generated in our economy goes to the federal government, when you consider that taxing of states and local governments that number jumps to over 1 in 3, now if you consider what the government actually spends the number is even larger as our government has no problem in spending more than it collects in revenues. Many Americans feel that this is out of control and they are afraid to just turn over healthcare to the federal bureaucracy.

Consider that government spending at all levels already consumes more than 4 out of 10 dollars spent in our economy now you are talking about increasing that to 6 out of 10. It goes against what many in this people believe. That goes all the way back to our nations founding, what our democrat friends would like to forget is that our constitution is a charter of negative powers, it specifically outlines what the federal government is responsible for and then relegates all other powers to the individual states.

Coming back to healthcare, why do Americans distrust our government? Because it is made up of political beasts who prove to us time and time again that they can not be trusted and show little concern for doing something right and doing something economically. We have bus drivers in this country who are earning healthy 6 figure salaries, that is outrageous, it would never happen in the private sector but it is a clear illustration of the apathy of government, it does not matter to them if they get it wrong or if they are inefficient as there is no pressure on them to do otherwise. They offer what they offer, legislate a monopoly and the people are stuck with the results and have to pay exorbitant fees for substandard services. It happens throughout our country. If the government were as efficient as is the private sector the taxes they currently collect could more than pay for the services that they provide, but that is not the case and it is never the case... Just look at this current rollout, what a mess filled with political paybacks and favor, now consider the trouble they are having just getting people enrolled into this new program, then consider American Express, Visa or Master Card, they can tell you down to the second and down to the penny about money spent by 100's of millions of people around the world in all kinds of different markets and monetary systems, our government can't even tell us how many people signed up for their program last month...

I have walked a long circle around your question, but I guess that there are those of us who just have no confidence in our government and until we see them do a better job of meeting their responsibilities to the American people we certainly don't want to give them more, especially under this program. They did not address so many large issues surrounding healthcare, the most obvious of which is tort as the lawsuits in this country are out of control, it is more like legalized extortion as attorneys are well aware that insurance companies will settle suits rather than fight them in court even when they are not culpable simply because it saves them money as it costs more to defend a case than it does to settle a case.

The democrats did not just try and fix the problem of the uninsured, they redefined the healthcare and insurance provided to all Americans and in so doing applied their brand of social justice as they have redefined risk pools not on the risk but on gender equality and social fairness, they have set up cost structures so that the healthy do not just pay their share, but they pay for the healthcare costs of others...

They could have done it differently and more effectively, but they could not resist the opportunity to step in and take control of every American's interaction with the healthcare system, and that is why it is met with so much opposition.

Democrats are never satisfied, and if they continue to get their way it does indeed lead to socialism or fascism, albeit a new brand of fascism one of the 21st century, government control of private assets for the good of the collective.

Bob Smith Loc: Banjarmasin

Great reply, obviously a lot more complex than I originally thought probably because over here we only get a sketchy outline of the whole problem. I am sure your bill of rights and constitution would defend against the socialist ideology.
Thanks for the information I knew you would come up with a good explanation. Cheers