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Jul 5, 2013 23:05:47   #
PNagy
 
Bmac wrote:
Here here PNagy. Sooo....how do you propose Israel should be dismantled or reconstitued? Perhaps you have some Mid-East examples for the new government. Egypt maybe, or Iran? How do you intend to placate the Palestinians in this re-structured nation? Prohibit all Jews from holding office? Placing them in camps? 8-)



I said a state for all its people, Mr. Mac, not an anti-Semitic one. There are currently Jews, Christians, and Muslims in Israel, but Israel is a racist Jewish state. You would understand that if someone were to reconstitute the US as a "protestant state." Moreover, when I say Israel, I mean Greater Israel, because Israel is the real hegemon in Gaza and the West Bank.

These territories are so thoroughly digested for Israeli absorption that they could never be hammered a viable state. There is the problem of half a million illegal settlers on prime land stolen from the Palestinians. (Fourth Geneva Convention and UN Resolution 242) The West Bank is hopelessly fragmented by Jews-only access roads that disrupt all Palestinian movement, particularly their economy. There are internal check points that cannot serve an security purpose, but exist in order to bring all Palestinian movement to a grinding halt, often even ambulances with mortally wounded and ill people in them.

Then there is the matter of the Middle East Berlin Wall, the so-called "Security Fence" that gerrymanders around the border between the West Bank and Israel, thus isolating choice Palestinian communities with the ultimate aim of forcing them to flee inward. It is interesting to note, too, that the Security Fence meanders around the entirety of the West Bank, including the Jordanian border. It is thus, actually a barrier around the world's largest outdoor prison.

There is no hope of any independent, viable Palestinian state. Israel has seen to it that only a Middle East Bantustan can rise from the ashes of the 22% of Palestine that theJews have not yet stolen. They have turned the Palestinians into Helots on their own land. The only fair solution is to create a new state that is neither Jewish, nor Palestinian, but like all truly democratic states, a state for all its people.
 
Jul 6, 2013 00:22:08   #
Bmac
 
PNagy wrote:
It is time to dismantle Israel and reconstitute it not as a Jewish state or a Palestinian state, but a state for all its people. It should be reconstituted as a unitary state that protects the civil and religious rights of all its inhabitants similar to the manner in which the US finally accepted the Indians it had not killed.

Bmac wrote:
Here here PNagy. Sooo....how do you propose Israel should be dismantled or reconstitued? Perhaps you have some Mid-East examples for the new government. Egypt maybe, or Iran? How do you intend to placate the Palestinians in this re-structured nation? Prohibit all Jews from holding office? Placing them in camps? 8-)

PNagy wrote:
I said a state for all its people, Mr. Mac, not an anti-Semitic one. There are currently Jews, Christians, and Muslims in Israel, but Israel is a racist Jewish state. You would understand that if someone were to reconstitute the US as a "protestant state." Moreover, when I say Israel, I mean Greater Israel, because Israel is the real hegemon in Gaza and the West Bank.

These territories are so thoroughly digested for Israeli absorption that they could never be hammered a viable state. There is the problem of half a million illegal settlers on prime land stolen from the Palestinians. (Fourth Geneva Convention and UN Resolution 242) The West Bank is hopelessly fragmented by Jews-only access roads that disrupt all Palestinian movement, particularly their economy. There are internal check points that cannot serve an security purpose, but exist in order to bring all Palestinian movement to a grinding halt, often even ambulances with mortally wounded and ill people in them.

Then there is the matter of the Middle East Berlin Wall, the so-called "Security Fence" that gerrymanders around the border between the West Bank and Israel, thus isolating choice Palestinian communities with the ultimate aim of forcing them to flee inward. It is interesting to note, too, that the Security Fence meanders around the entirety of the West Bank, including the Jordanian border. It is thus, actually a barrier around the world's largest outdoor prison.

There is no hope of any independent, viable Palestinian state. Israel has seen to it that only a Middle East Bantustan can rise from the ashes of the 22% of Palestine that theJews have not yet stolen. They have turned the Palestinians into Helots on their own land. The only fair solution is to create a new state that is neither Jewish, nor Palestinian, but like all truly democratic states, a state for all its people.
I said a state for all its people, Mr. Mac, not an... (show quote)


All that bloviating Mr Nagy, yet no answer to my questions.

PNagy wrote:
It is time to dismantle Israel and reconstitute it not as a Jewish state or a Palestinian state, but a state for all its people.


Sooo....how do you propose Israel should be dismantled or reconstitued? How do you intend to placate the Palestinians in this re-structured nation? 8-)
Jul 6, 2013 06:43:52   #
Brucej67
 
It is written in the that God gave this land to the Jews, not the Arabs. Maybe some Indian should reclaim the land your house is on since you feel so deeply about this.

PNagy wrote:
I said a state for all its people, Mr. Mac, not an anti-Semitic one. There are currently Jews, Christians, and Muslims in Israel, but Israel is a racist Jewish state. You would understand that if someone were to reconstitute the US as a "protestant state." Moreover, when I say Israel, I mean Greater Israel, because Israel is the real hegemon in Gaza and the West Bank.

These territories are so thoroughly digested for Israeli absorption that they could never be hammered a viable state. There is the problem of half a million illegal settlers on prime land stolen from the Palestinians. (Fourth Geneva Convention and UN Resolution 242) The West Bank is hopelessly fragmented by Jews-only access roads that disrupt all Palestinian movement, particularly their economy. There are internal check points that cannot serve an security purpose, but exist in order to bring all Palestinian movement to a grinding halt, often even ambulances with mortally wounded and ill people in them.

Then there is the matter of the Middle East Berlin Wall, the so-called "Security Fence" that gerrymanders around the border between the West Bank and Israel, thus isolating choice Palestinian communities with the ultimate aim of forcing them to flee inward. It is interesting to note, too, that the Security Fence meanders around the entirety of the West Bank, including the Jordanian border. It is thus, actually a barrier around the world's largest outdoor prison.

There is no hope of any independent, viable Palestinian state. Israel has seen to it that only a Middle East Bantustan can rise from the ashes of the 22% of Palestine that theJews have not yet stolen. They have turned the Palestinians into Helots on their own land. The only fair solution is to create a new state that is neither Jewish, nor Palestinian, but like all truly democratic states, a state for all its people.
I said a state for all its people, Mr. Mac, not an... (show quote)
Jul 6, 2013 12:17:41   #
cudakite
 
Brucej67 wrote:
It is written in the that God gave this land to the Jews, not the Arabs. Maybe some Indian should reclaim the land your house is on since you feel so deeply about this.


Hilarious!! I can picture petey living behind a dumpster bemoaning the total absence of anyone worshiping at the shrine of his self-proclaimed intellect!!
Jul 6, 2013 13:00:42   #
Danilo
 
ole sarg wrote:
Ocbeyer we are of kindered spirit. American retirees. The largest group receiving welfare in the nation. SS and Medicare are the drivers of the debt. But as they say keep the government's hands off my medicare!


I'm surprised how easily you overlook the fact most of us have had both SS and Medicare premium payments taken from our paychecks for most of our lives. Why is it so outrageous for some to say "keep your hands off"?
Perhaps you've never had a civilian pay check. :roll:
Jul 6, 2013 17:20:04   #
Brucej67
 
It is written in the Tora. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pPVQxWNtUQ

cudakite wrote:
Hilarious!! I can picture petey living behind a dumpster bemoaning the total absence of anyone worshiping at the shrine of his self-proclaimed intellect!!
 
Jul 8, 2013 12:02:14   #
PNagy
 
Bmac:Here here PNagy. Sooo....how do you propose Israel should be dismantled or reconstitued? Perhaps you have some Mid-East examples for the new government. Egypt maybe, or Iran? How do you intend to placate the Palestinians in this re-structured nation? Prohibit all Jews from holding office? Placing them in camps?


Who said anything about preventing Jews from holding office or placing them in camps? I proposed the creation of a state for all its people, just as all non-racist states are. It need not be the zero-sum situation you are suggesting, whereby the Jews either are allowed to continue their oppression, or they become the victims of someone else's oppression. You are a good Zionist, who knows how to cry about what MIGHT happen to the Israeli Jews as an excuse for what they ARE doing to the Palestinians.
Jul 8, 2013 12:39:47   #
PNagy
 
BMac: All that bloviating Mr Nagy, yet no answer to my questions.

Nagy: I told you it would be as a state for all its people instead of racist Jewish state. In general it would include the protection of everyone's civil rights, including religious rights, universal adult suffrage and right to hold office.
Beyond that, I will not play for you the Middle Eastern James Madison or Gouverneur Morris to list either legislative nor constitutional detail of the successor state.

Other states have managed to assimilate multifarious ethnic groups created by conquest. The Arabic people practiced a much higher level of tolerance for Jews than Europeans until they realized that the Jews were bent on dispossessing one of the Arab people. They should be able to return to that status quo ante. However long the process of healing and assimilation takes, it must be viewed in the context of the Jews having created the problem with their neocolonialist policies.

Whatever I wrote on this, no matter how detailed or astute, you would reject as pointless, irrelevant to what you asked, or whatever else you could embrace fraudulently to create the impression that you have discredited me. This has been your unwavering habit with me.

I am not amused by your asinine insults, such as calling my proposal bloviating. You are suffering from the typical right wing syndrome of categorically rejecting the merit of anything that does not conform to your own ideas, which are not at all original, but an unmodified regurgitation of all right wing views.

In this vein I noted with amusement that when your rightist buddies noticed that they concurred with my views about the Trayvon Martin case, and a few others. They suddenly praised me for being able to think, being spot on, etc. They had actually praised one of my more routine opinions, not a particularly creative or original one. The only criterion for judgment is the degree to which they agree or reject a thought.

The only difference between you and them is that you are more guarded, even to the point of being insidious. However, you have not demonstrated more than a passing familiarity with the Palestinian/Israeli situation, or a hint of original thought about it. One must consider the source when evaluating your oblique tilts at me.
Jul 8, 2013 13:22:36   #
Brucej67
 
Most of my family were killed by people that thought like you and ones that survived went to Israel, the home of our ancestors. The hatred between the Palestinians and Jews goes back centuries and can't be resolved by simple solutions. Palestinians would no more be happy with Jewish leaders as Jews would be satisfied with Palestinian leaders, and who will enforce the peace. Just think about it in the USA would it work to have Islamic leaders in our government? Would they try to change our form of democracy? See how it is working in Egypt, there are always problems when you mix groups with opposing views, should the USA or Briton or the UN be the policemen, didn't work out in the past did it?

PNagy wrote:
BMac: All that bloviating Mr Nagy, yet no answer to my questions.

Nagy: I told you it would be as a state for all its people instead of racist Jewish state. In general it would include the protection of everyone's civil rights, including religious rights, universal adult suffrage and right to hold office.
Beyond that, I will not play for you the Middle Eastern James Madison or Gouverneur Morris to list either legislative nor constitutional detail of the successor state.

Other states have managed to assimilate multifarious ethnic groups created by conquest. The Arabic people practiced a much higher level of tolerance for Jews than Europeans until they realized that the Jews were bent on dispossessing one of the Arab people. They should be able to return to that status quo ante. However long the process of healing and assimilation takes, it must be viewed in the context of the Jews having created the problem with their neocolonialist policies.

Whatever I wrote on this, no matter how detailed or astute, you would reject as pointless, irrelevant to what you asked, or whatever else you could embrace fraudulently to create the impression that you have discredited me. This has been your unwavering habit with me.

I am not amused by your asinine insults, such as calling my proposal bloviating. You are suffering from the typical right wing syndrome of categorically rejecting the merit of anything that does not conform to your own ideas, which are not at all original, but an unmodified regurgitation of all right wing views.

In this vein I noted with amusement that when your rightist buddies noticed that they concurred with my views about the Trayvon Martin case, and a few others. They suddenly praised me for being able to think, being spot on, etc. They had actually praised one of my more routine opinions, not a particularly creative or original one. The only criterion for judgment is the degree to which they agree or reject a thought.

The only difference between you and them is that you are more guarded, even to the point of being insidious. However, you have not demonstrated more than a passing familiarity with the Palestinian/Israeli situation, or a hint of original thought about it. One must consider the source when evaluating your oblique tilts at me.
BMac: All that bloviating Mr Nagy, yet no answer t... (show quote)
Jul 8, 2013 17:42:08   #
Wabbit (suspended)
 
Bmac wrote:
Sooo....how do you propose Israel should be dismantled or reconstitued? How do you intend to placate the Palestinians in this re-structured nation? 8-)


And the teacher ain't gonna answer ya Doc , he's got a brain fart right now so his noggin ain't functioning .....
Jul 8, 2013 18:38:17   #
Bmac
 
Wabbit wrote:
And the teacher ain't gonna answer ya Doc , he's got a brain fart right now so his noggin ain't functioning .....


Doesn't look like it does it Wabbit. :D He could have saved himself some time by simply stating he wasn't or couldn't answer my question.

Too bad, I was curious as to how he would "dismantle" Israel. Maybe a military option. Who knows. 8-)
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