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Mar 28, 2024 10:30:14   #
Rich2236 wrote:
Forget the bridge abutments, why didn't the captain let go the anchor when he first realized the power was out all over the ship. THAT, would have stopped the ship in its tracks!!!


No it wouldn't. Dropping the bow anchors brings a whole new set of problems with a ship of that mass and length. An emergency anchor was dropped, but that's akin to dropping a fishing line and hook and hoping it catches on some weeds.

Dropping the anchor will require power to the winches and windlass gear. Time is also a factor.
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Mar 28, 2024 10:00:23   #
jerryc41 wrote:
Right. If someone had told the designed that a container ship would crash into the bridge in the future, he could have taken steps to change the design. I suspect financial constraints influenced the design. The people who demanded those constraints are now out of the picture, and someone else has to come up with $ millions to rebuild the bridge.


Projects deal with the legs (parameters) - Cost - Time - Scope - of a triangle. Any change in one of the legs changes the other two. Project managers deal with these parameters all the time.

Too many folks commenting on shoulda, woulda, coulda.

Stuff happens, tragically yes, but stuff happens.
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Mar 28, 2024 09:04:59   #
bobups wrote:
Mechanics were working on this ship while in port


Not unusual. All ships have ongoing maintenance while in port. Ships require 24/7 maintenance, and most have a rather complicated schedule of preventive maintenance. That doesn't include maintenance issues that arise from sudden failures.
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Mar 27, 2024 20:48:25   #
dustie wrote:
A big enough barrier of some kind can do some stopping.

How much is going to be big enough is going to depend on many things, and a simple concrete pylon design (which you originally suggested) is going to have to be a massive pylon if it's going to catch, hold and contain the massive energy that is present in even a low speed impact.

How massive are those pylons going to have to be if they are expected to catch, hold and contain a vessel that hits at 10, 12, 14, or more knots instead of down around 7.5 - 8 knots?

At what point do engineers and lawmakers and public agree there is no possible way a barrier is too small to prevent the potential for damage in an as-yet-unseen incident of monstrous proportions?
From which direction is there never going to be any possible chance a bridge pylon could be contacted? What happens if a bumper/pylon is not built to completely surround the bridge support, then a vessel somehow gets in and hits it on an unprotected side?

The reinforced concrete below waterline holding the Dali, is far more massive than the vertical members that were above water.
If it was to be "copied" as a design for pylons/bumpers that could not be breached, it would have to be many times larger above water than what those vertical members were. The taller they have to be to reach from bedrock to expected height of contact above water, the more proportionately massive they will have to be so they can hopefully be strong enough to prevent any release of energy from breaking through.

At what point of time, materials, expense, waterway obstruction, can it be agreed the bumpers/pylons are big enough to never be not big enough?
A b big enough /b barrier of some kind can do so... (show quote)


Most construction has to be built "good enough". An engineer and/or designer would go nuts trying to thing of all the permutations and conditions which could make any structure invulnerable.

The Dali had two pilots on board, but even they couldn't predict that she would lose power, go to auxiliary, and from the looks of the film, lose auxiliary power also. And who could've predicted that she would lose power at that point in the river?

One of the talking heads made a big deal of the emergency anchor, and why it didn't stop the ship. Most folks don't have any idea of the energy generated by a ship that size, and of whatever speed she was running. Dropping the emergency anchor would be akin to dropping a fishing line overboard and hoping the hook would catch onto a clump of weeds.

I spent a number of years in the Navy Reserve, and on my first cruise on a WWII Sumner Class DD. While at sea, the captain would order drills such as losing power, then losing aux. power. Didn't understand at first, but it was an excellent drill.
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Mar 27, 2024 07:49:48   #
Effate wrote:
Don’t know about your jurisdiction but in California we have felonies, misdemeanors and infractions (such as traffic) which are all criminal. If you refused to sign a promise to appear (a ticket) you could be incarcerated. In America, we don’t have debtor’s prison so if it was civil that sanction would not be available. I believe fines are levied in certain civil actions such as code violations (building, nuisance, etc.) but in a civil law suit damages are awarded. Perhaps we are getting caught up in semantics.
Don’t know about your jurisdiction but in Californ... (show quote)


In the states I know of, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, and Kentucky, most run-of-the mill traffic violations are civil infractions (torts); i.e. 10 over, failure to yield, etc. There are laws on books in all three states which can elevate traffic violations to felonies if necessary. Fleeing a traffic stop, and the like, are all crimes and are treated as such. You're required to acknowledge the violation and appear in court, or pay the fine in advance of your court date. Failure to appear for a civil infraction of any kind, results in a bench warrant and further charges.
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Mar 26, 2024 22:15:12   #
Frank T wrote:
What part of It Was Not A Fine, don't you understand?


Fines are levied in civil cases all the time. Any payment to the government by court action, criminal or civil, is a fine. Simplest example is a fine for speeding, in traffic court.
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Mar 26, 2024 22:13:20   #
Effate wrote:
...A fine is a punitive remedy in a criminal proceeding.


Not necessarily. Fines are also assessed in civil liability cases all the time. Traffic fines are civil in nature.
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Mar 26, 2024 17:13:50   #
DennyT wrote:
We welcome you “‘opinion” since that’s all it is .

Top of that the 8th says nothing about “ bonds” bonds are not bail. Educate yourself.
And far as the fine goes it was a mathematical calculation based on the trial facts and not punitive.
So while you are entitled to you opinion it is my opinion the 8th amendment has no bearing in the trump case.


The amount of the fine was pulled out of the judges arse. There was absolutely no loss of money by any of the alleged victims. There were no direct, nor indirect damages which could be assessed, since there were no victims. Ergo, any amount would be excessive. The judge admitted he calculated the fine only on what he saw were potential damages.

The so-called bond was based on the assessed fine against Trump. And there are any number of attorneys who've stated that the fine was beyond any reasonable amount, if there were any victims.

I did not state an opinion. The 8th Amendment prohibits unreasonable punishment, including fines. You should go read a book, but you really should pull your skull out of your arse first.
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Mar 26, 2024 10:17:31   #
Junior high - Hermalean Hornbuckle - Hotter than a $2 pistol. Years later, saw her performing at a strip club, confirming my adolescent fantasies.
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Mar 25, 2024 22:26:55   #
tramsey wrote:
I think he paid off the Appeals Court. No, that's not possible but getting a bond reduced 75% I thought was impossible to


Not when the original bond was $450 million +/-. Clear violation of the 8th Amendment.
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Mar 23, 2024 17:47:25   #
[quote=Shutterbug1697][b]BLAH, BLAH, BLAH[/quote]

Mine are not theories. They are derived from the spoken words of legal luminaries such as Alan Dershowitz and Professor Jonathon Turley. They were not made from whole cloth as the NY AG and that moronic judge Juan Merchan did.

The 5th Amendment also guarantees due process and does not specify criminal or civil actions; read the entire amendment.
The 8th Amendment prohibits excessive fines. $400 million plus is pure fantasy, since there was no civil infraction. Deutsche Bank, on which this case is partly based, filed no complaint, civil or otherwise, with the NY AG office.
The 14th Amendment also guarantees due process.

I guess you should send Donald Trump a bill for rent. He's taken up residence in your feeble mind, and you haven't the smarts to charge him for it.
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Mar 23, 2024 09:21:39   #
Shutterbug1697 wrote:
The only way that trump can file an appeal under New York state law is to post a bond.

According to the trump appeal filing to stay the bond posting, trump couldn't as of their filing find anyone to agree to post the bond for him.

So just how do you believe that trump is going to be able to successfully appeal the amount due to the State of New York without following the State of New York appeal process?


Not true. He may also appeal through the Federal courts based on U.S. Constitutional violations of his 5th, 8th, and 14th Amendment rights. All of those were violated in NY State courts. Happens all the time in civil and criminal cases.
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Mar 22, 2024 08:51:10   #
DennyT wrote:
Water under the bridge . Trump is guilty !!


Appeals and due process haven't yet played out.

And since we're talking about civil infractions, then it's not guilt that's involved.
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Mar 21, 2024 20:29:45   #
Frank T wrote:
So the Trump team announced yesterday that they couldn't come up with a bond or cash for the $480 Million dollars as per the court order.
At first, I thought, gee that's okay, the DA can just take 40 Wall Street, which is one of the buildings Trump is most proud of. Then after a bit of research, I found out, he doesn't own that building. He holds a 200-year lease on the building from the company that owns it and it's not a Trump company. Then I found out that he also does not own Trump Tower in its entirety, he owns the retail space and his Triplex apartment.

Seems that the Billionaire he purports himself to be is simply all smoke and mirrors.
I should have figured he lied about being a billionaire because he's lied about everything else.

The good news is that the MAGA'ts will send money to him because they're not the brightest lights on Broadway.
The other great news is that Taylor Swift has the cash and could write him a check if she wanted to. Unfortunately, she doesn't want to.

The next move is by Attorney General Letitia James.

This is going to be a fun ride.
So the Trump team announced yesterday that they co... (show quote)


This is the trouble with the idiocy delivered to the hoi polloi by a corrupt media. Nobody bothers to check just how the property ownerships are structured. Commercial properties are incredibly complicated, both in their financing, and deeds.

There are other entities involved, and the idiot AG glosses over their interests as if they don't exist. I'm a bit surprised that other interested parties haven't become more widely known.

There are also Constitutional issues involving the 8th Amendment, as well as the 5th and 14th Amendments.

If James is successful in her persecution and illegal asset confiscation, and Trump is then successful in getting this farce dismissed on appeal, the state of New York will likely be bankrupted in the counter-actions. Trump also has a route through the Federal Courts with civil violations of his Constitutional rights. Most of the numbers mentioned are "fire sale" prices. As many folks know, that when property values come into play in civil courts, they're rarely cited in terms of the "fire sale"; market value is a far different animal.
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Mar 20, 2024 08:54:09   #
If you're referring to NY's persecution of Donald Trump, then you have no idea of which you write.

Lots of folks are asset-rich, yet cash-poor. Happens all the time. Excess cash fluidity is dangerous; like keeping your money under the mattress. Find me anyone who had $500 million cash on hand. Oops! You can't!!!

Most folks have one major asset, their home. And those, while they're all encumbered, certainly aren't liquid assets.

There's lots of evidence that NY has violated Trump's 8th Amendment rights; not only the 5th and 14th Amendments. Punishment must match the crime. And the "crime", which is a nonstarter, had no victims.

I love that Trump lives in your head 24/7.
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