My first "second" job
Jun 13, 2018 13:03:59 #
Well, I survived my first "second" photographer job ;) Not sure if I want to pursue wedding photography - it stressed me out! My indoor shots were terribly grainy...was going back and forth from bright sunshine into dark interior barn and I am still trying to get my settings in my head. My primary told me he was very pleased so I feel relieved but thought I would share a few of my pics with you all and get your thoughts. My task was to get the dressing room shots and some of the off the wall shots. (Oh, and this job was "for free" - she is a dear friend to both of us ;)
Jun 13, 2018 16:06:38 #
Can see you had some problems with getting exposures correct. However, you must start somewhere and now you know wedding photography isn't for most, it takes guts to hang it out there ....
Composition on the 5 photos is so so. Don't crop/compose where there is a cut at the joints. The picture of her back to us doesn't have 'good' subject matter. The picture with the sign should reflect thirds, I keep looking for the rest of the blurred out couple but it's blocked by the sign, composing on the thirds would of allowed both elements to be in the picture. The flowered bedspread in the last picture is a distraction. The pictures needed a bit more DOF to make sure the whole dress was in focus but I could live with it the way to have it minus the bedspread. The B&W with the bride sitting would be more interesting without the white 'balls' on the right side.
I've seen much worst for a first attempt ;)
Composition on the 5 photos is so so. Don't crop/compose where there is a cut at the joints. The picture of her back to us doesn't have 'good' subject matter. The picture with the sign should reflect thirds, I keep looking for the rest of the blurred out couple but it's blocked by the sign, composing on the thirds would of allowed both elements to be in the picture. The flowered bedspread in the last picture is a distraction. The pictures needed a bit more DOF to make sure the whole dress was in focus but I could live with it the way to have it minus the bedspread. The B&W with the bride sitting would be more interesting without the white 'balls' on the right side.
I've seen much worst for a first attempt ;)
Jun 13, 2018 18:10:39 #
I totally get where you are coming from - thank you for your observations! It was tough - the dressing room was horrendous and small with no windows and absolutely no way of getting full shots so my primary told me to go at all my pics with an off the wall journalistic approach (he handled all posed shots and actual wedding shots) but you are right, I am kicking myself with the "sign" composition. It could have been a great shot and experience would have let me know that even if I couldn't see my display lol. I haven't sought out wedding photography but was asked to help and thought...why not? Now I know! LOL
Jun 15, 2018 17:08:56 #
I hope you hang in there. Although it was over 30 years ago, I sure remember how stressed I was for my "first second shooter job" It actually took a lot of work, and a lot of "sometimes brutal" feedback. It was a lot less forgiving with film, so you have an advantage there. I hope you have a good relationship with the first shooter. I was able to see where you were going with your photos, which is a good first step. As Jerry said, sometimes, the idea just doesn't translate to paper, so don't be afraid to make the photos, but use them as a learning experience.
The only one that really bugged me was the same one that bothered Jerry. If you could see a reflection in the mirror, or spotlight something special, it would have been better. It did show detail, which is good, but didn't tell a story. Maybe a mom in the background crying, or her reflection looking contemplative. Something like that.
Please don't take any of what we say as "mean" just trying to be helpful. If you want to hear mean, ruin several shots with film, and you don't know you did it until it's been sent to the lab. Yeah, that's when the yelling gets real. My mentor had quite a "gruff" demeanor, but I do know that he was trying to make me the best I could be.
Thanks for sharing.
Bob
The only one that really bugged me was the same one that bothered Jerry. If you could see a reflection in the mirror, or spotlight something special, it would have been better. It did show detail, which is good, but didn't tell a story. Maybe a mom in the background crying, or her reflection looking contemplative. Something like that.
Please don't take any of what we say as "mean" just trying to be helpful. If you want to hear mean, ruin several shots with film, and you don't know you did it until it's been sent to the lab. Yeah, that's when the yelling gets real. My mentor had quite a "gruff" demeanor, but I do know that he was trying to make me the best I could be.
Thanks for sharing.
Bob
Jun 15, 2018 19:16:32 #
Please believe me when I say I do not mind honest feedback! I am here to learn and I have a thick skin ;) My primary was pretty happy with most of the shots I got because #1 He knew I was a beginner, and #2 he knew how brutal it was. He was very frustrated himself because there was no real quality background material and everything had to be fast fast fast - they didn't give him much time for poses. Plus most of the shots were in bright sunlight at 11am in the morning challenging to say the least. I was able to help him mostly with memory/ring shots the day before and helping with posing and I was very happy he wasn't counting on me for important shots lol! Keep the instruction coming please :D
bkyser wrote:
I hope you hang in there. Although it was over 30... (show quote)
Jun 16, 2018 14:02:46 #
Hi D! Welcome to the wedding section!
If you are beginning to start out in the professional wedding photography business, full or part time, now is a good time to get an overview of you roles as a primary or second shooter, develop some solid technical habits and begin to build your confidence and reduce the sweat and stress of getting the job done.
Nowadays, very little is discussed about the FINAL PRODUCT of the still photography- how are the images going to be viewed, stored and appreciated in years to come. Obviously, IF the client is also having a video produced, they are gonna view it on their TV screen in the form of an edited comprehensive and chronological “movie” of their wedding day. What then, of the still images? If there is no video, can they stand on their own and TELL THE STORY? There will be hundreds or thousands of “shots”. Perhaps the best of the bunch will end up on a CD or maybe in an album.
In my own business, I still encourage the traditionl ALBUM, which can indeed stand on it's own as a permanent keepsake and detailed and elegant record of the wedding. Even if the images are relegated to a DVD, a comprehensive mixture of portraiture and journalism should amount to a smooth , easy to view, interesting sequence of images that can be enjoyed by the couple an there friends and family for years to come. This will require a good number of both planned and impromptu shots and some savvy editing.
As you alluded to in your post, the first shooter has the responsibility of all the “must have” and formal and casual shots of the couple, their family and bridal party members and the ceremony and reception coverage. Of course, he or she can not be in two places at one time so the second shooter is charged with the detail shots, the emotional and candid happenings that are ongoing, not only in the “center of the action” but on the “outskirts of the affair”. As the second shooter, you are not really playing a secondary roles and you need to be “on your game” so you must learn, practice and work at mastering you camera handling, exposure and composition so that you are ready to “rock 'n' roll” as the action occurs. While you are at it- this is great opportunity for experience and practice for becoming a primary wedding photographer. Remember- when all is done at the wedding and editing time comes around, your shots are gonna be VITAL to relating interesting details, show the REAL emotions and putting the nuances and finishing touches on the story!
Get ready for bad places! Some wedding take place in elegant surroundings; majestic churches, well manicured gardens, opulent ballrooms and fancy catering venues. Just as many will find you in cramped quarters, modest churches, aging Legion halls, old barns and “grandma's backyard"! You may be running back and forth between dingy darkness and bright sunlight. You need to familiarize yourself with the exposure settings for all of theses situations, know exactly how to employ FLASH for fill in, augmentation of natural light and as your only main light source. Careful composition, framing, strategic choice of camera angle, and selective focus will help you avoid, eliminate or scramble unsightly or distracting backgrounds and also enable to include interesting surrounding details in your images.
You need to work carefully and deliberately, HOWEVER. you can't fumble with your equipment and there are times when you MUST grab the emotions, gun and run, and “shoot first and ask questions (well...edit) later”! There a re times when I shoot with the camera held high over my head or from the hip with no access to the viewfinder- a bit of cropping and a few PhotoShop shenanigans make the shot after the fact.
I don't know what your level of knowledge and experience is as to many of the required skill sets but here are some of the subjects you should research, learn about and develop as part of your own technique- I'm giving you some “homework”!
Exposure and Lighting- how to use both manual and programmed exposure modes to their best advantage and how to manipulate and understand the automatic functions on your cameras. ISO settings and their relationship to “noise” or grain. Out-of-doors candids and formals, reflector usage and subtractive lighting.
Flash technique- On and off camera flash lighting, multiple flash methods, bounce flash methods, bare bulb, flash-fill and synchronous-sunlight methods, the use of flash brackets, Speedlights, mono-lights, umbrellas and softboxes. Flash exposure- manual, auto, TTL, triggering devices and synchronizations speeds and limitations.
Optics- Lens usage- primes, zooms, focal lengths and perspectives. Depth of field, "bokeh", distortion avoidance, auto-focus modes and soft focus.
Logistics- Basically always being at the right place at the right time and being able to anticipate action, expression and emotional reactions. As you attend more an more weddings, you will learn many of the routines and sequences of events that are common to most weddings but you will also develop a “sixth sense” about off-beat happenings, special ethnic or cultural traditions and unexpected happenings. Get a feel for the “whose who” the VIPs and important guests- stalk the couples and their parents and the close friends in the bridal party and get ready to grab the smiles, laughs, the tears , the hugs and kisses and the joy. You will get the “vibes” of family and other close relationships. Get “reaction shots”- if the main shooter is shooting the cake cutting, the bouquet toss or the first dance- look for the reactions of the crowed and the onlookers- especially the close relatives.
Formals- If you aspire to be a first shooter-, study the basics of portrait lighting and posing. Elegant, romantic, and traditional wedding portraits and groups need no be stiff and boring. Chekk out the bridal magazines and see how the fashion photographers manage the gowns, trains, veils and flowers.
As for your images- Not at all too bad! You have potential! You captured a lovely image of the bride with a nice rim light on her profile. A bit of cropping to knock out some distractions in the background and a little more contrast and density makes for a cool candid portrait- GREAT EXPRESSION!
The bride in the chair captures a cute prop at the reception- I scrambled the tripods in the background, corrected the color a bit and it tells the story of the bride taking a break and watching all the activity kinda whizzing by. Nice shot!
2/3 composition of the sign? Not to worry- I just messed with the perspective. It's a great insert shot- it tells the story of the informality of the seating and the “one family” theme and WOW- there is the ceremony in the background! Good journalism my friend!
Please see my quick i-Phone edits to follow.
Good luck, keep posting here with your progress and I hope all the guys here have been helpful!
Don't forget the homework- there's gonna be a quiz
Ed
If you are beginning to start out in the professional wedding photography business, full or part time, now is a good time to get an overview of you roles as a primary or second shooter, develop some solid technical habits and begin to build your confidence and reduce the sweat and stress of getting the job done.
Nowadays, very little is discussed about the FINAL PRODUCT of the still photography- how are the images going to be viewed, stored and appreciated in years to come. Obviously, IF the client is also having a video produced, they are gonna view it on their TV screen in the form of an edited comprehensive and chronological “movie” of their wedding day. What then, of the still images? If there is no video, can they stand on their own and TELL THE STORY? There will be hundreds or thousands of “shots”. Perhaps the best of the bunch will end up on a CD or maybe in an album.
In my own business, I still encourage the traditionl ALBUM, which can indeed stand on it's own as a permanent keepsake and detailed and elegant record of the wedding. Even if the images are relegated to a DVD, a comprehensive mixture of portraiture and journalism should amount to a smooth , easy to view, interesting sequence of images that can be enjoyed by the couple an there friends and family for years to come. This will require a good number of both planned and impromptu shots and some savvy editing.
As you alluded to in your post, the first shooter has the responsibility of all the “must have” and formal and casual shots of the couple, their family and bridal party members and the ceremony and reception coverage. Of course, he or she can not be in two places at one time so the second shooter is charged with the detail shots, the emotional and candid happenings that are ongoing, not only in the “center of the action” but on the “outskirts of the affair”. As the second shooter, you are not really playing a secondary roles and you need to be “on your game” so you must learn, practice and work at mastering you camera handling, exposure and composition so that you are ready to “rock 'n' roll” as the action occurs. While you are at it- this is great opportunity for experience and practice for becoming a primary wedding photographer. Remember- when all is done at the wedding and editing time comes around, your shots are gonna be VITAL to relating interesting details, show the REAL emotions and putting the nuances and finishing touches on the story!
Get ready for bad places! Some wedding take place in elegant surroundings; majestic churches, well manicured gardens, opulent ballrooms and fancy catering venues. Just as many will find you in cramped quarters, modest churches, aging Legion halls, old barns and “grandma's backyard"! You may be running back and forth between dingy darkness and bright sunlight. You need to familiarize yourself with the exposure settings for all of theses situations, know exactly how to employ FLASH for fill in, augmentation of natural light and as your only main light source. Careful composition, framing, strategic choice of camera angle, and selective focus will help you avoid, eliminate or scramble unsightly or distracting backgrounds and also enable to include interesting surrounding details in your images.
You need to work carefully and deliberately, HOWEVER. you can't fumble with your equipment and there are times when you MUST grab the emotions, gun and run, and “shoot first and ask questions (well...edit) later”! There a re times when I shoot with the camera held high over my head or from the hip with no access to the viewfinder- a bit of cropping and a few PhotoShop shenanigans make the shot after the fact.
I don't know what your level of knowledge and experience is as to many of the required skill sets but here are some of the subjects you should research, learn about and develop as part of your own technique- I'm giving you some “homework”!
Exposure and Lighting- how to use both manual and programmed exposure modes to their best advantage and how to manipulate and understand the automatic functions on your cameras. ISO settings and their relationship to “noise” or grain. Out-of-doors candids and formals, reflector usage and subtractive lighting.
Flash technique- On and off camera flash lighting, multiple flash methods, bounce flash methods, bare bulb, flash-fill and synchronous-sunlight methods, the use of flash brackets, Speedlights, mono-lights, umbrellas and softboxes. Flash exposure- manual, auto, TTL, triggering devices and synchronizations speeds and limitations.
Optics- Lens usage- primes, zooms, focal lengths and perspectives. Depth of field, "bokeh", distortion avoidance, auto-focus modes and soft focus.
Logistics- Basically always being at the right place at the right time and being able to anticipate action, expression and emotional reactions. As you attend more an more weddings, you will learn many of the routines and sequences of events that are common to most weddings but you will also develop a “sixth sense” about off-beat happenings, special ethnic or cultural traditions and unexpected happenings. Get a feel for the “whose who” the VIPs and important guests- stalk the couples and their parents and the close friends in the bridal party and get ready to grab the smiles, laughs, the tears , the hugs and kisses and the joy. You will get the “vibes” of family and other close relationships. Get “reaction shots”- if the main shooter is shooting the cake cutting, the bouquet toss or the first dance- look for the reactions of the crowed and the onlookers- especially the close relatives.
Formals- If you aspire to be a first shooter-, study the basics of portrait lighting and posing. Elegant, romantic, and traditional wedding portraits and groups need no be stiff and boring. Chekk out the bridal magazines and see how the fashion photographers manage the gowns, trains, veils and flowers.
As for your images- Not at all too bad! You have potential! You captured a lovely image of the bride with a nice rim light on her profile. A bit of cropping to knock out some distractions in the background and a little more contrast and density makes for a cool candid portrait- GREAT EXPRESSION!
The bride in the chair captures a cute prop at the reception- I scrambled the tripods in the background, corrected the color a bit and it tells the story of the bride taking a break and watching all the activity kinda whizzing by. Nice shot!
2/3 composition of the sign? Not to worry- I just messed with the perspective. It's a great insert shot- it tells the story of the informality of the seating and the “one family” theme and WOW- there is the ceremony in the background! Good journalism my friend!
Please see my quick i-Phone edits to follow.
Good luck, keep posting here with your progress and I hope all the guys here have been helpful!
Don't forget the homework- there's gonna be a quiz
Ed
Jun 16, 2018 14:07:34 #
Jun 18, 2018 09:01:50 #
Very nice! Thank you for the examples...it helped me out a lot :) I will probably never be interested in being the primary shooter for weddings but my primary said he would like to work with me again because he likes my eye and is willing to give me lessons - so it is a win win for me! I love it just for the experience and all of your advice is invaluable - thank you.
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Quick and dirty i-phone edits.
Jul 13, 2018 07:12:50 #
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Quick and dirty i-phone edits.
Sign edit is spot on...
Good capture from the OP ...
Dec 3, 2018 18:19:33 #
If I were going inside and outside with that kind of lighting I would have one of my cameras set for indoor and the other for outdoor, and decide ahead of time which lens I wanted for each, or just swap lenses back and forth.
Dec 3, 2018 18:22:37 #
I think that is what I would do next time Jim. In this case, I wish I had bought my Fuji before I did this job - It is much easier for me to adapt to. I would have my Nikon w/ my Tokina 100 for the ring shots and outside and use my Fuji indoors.
jim quist wrote:
If I were going inside and outside with that kind of lighting I would have one of my cameras set for indoor and the other for outdoor, and decide ahead of time which lens I wanted for each, or just swap lenses back and forth.
Dec 4, 2018 19:49:42 #
deer2ker wrote:
I think that is what I would do next time Jim. In this case, I wish I had bought my Fuji before I did this job - It is much easier for me to adapt to. I would have my Nikon w/ my Tokina 100 for the ring shots and outside and use my Fuji indoors.
I may have not mentioned this in my previous posts. If you were NOT nervous during your first wedding shoot and drained afterward, I would think you were NOT cut out for the work. The first gig is always a strain on the nerves- it's natural. It's good to be a bit on edge- it shows that you are working hard and attempting to stay in the game. Being overly confident, early on, is worse and can lead to serious mistakes and bad habits.
As for as exposure differentials, indoor- outdoor- changes of venue etc. It comes with practice. As you work more and more weddings you begin to anticipate the action- each shot before it happens and you will be able to quickly change gears. It's one kinda work where "practice- practice and more practice" is not an old adage or old wives tale- IT'S THE TRUTH!
Read up, watch online tutorials about wedding photography, attend classes if you can but on-the-job training as a second shooter is the best learning experience.
Good luck!
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