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Defining correct exposure
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Jun 13, 2018 03:18:27   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
canadaboy wrote:
A good argument for using program mode lol


Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

A good argument for knowing what you are doing . . . Just sayin'

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Jun 13, 2018 06:24:06   #
SusanFromVermont Loc: Southwest corner of Vermont
 
canadaboy wrote:
Discounting special effects such as high or low key etc, if asked how I might define correct exposure I could say something like "were it a scene that includes a mid Grey object, correct exposure would be settings that make the object appear as a similar tone in the completed image".

How would you define it?

"Correct exposure" is determined by your objectives in taking a particular photograph. There is no clear-cut definition that covers any situation. You can use middle gray all you want, but that does not solve problems of high dynamic range, where there are multiple levels of exposure that will capture the image, so which one would be correct? Also, if your intent is to capture a scene and put a certain "mood" into it, you might decide that a bit of under- or over-exposure will accomplish that. There are more factors to take into consideration for determining exposure than how the colors turn out!

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Jun 13, 2018 06:27:48   #
SusanFromVermont Loc: Southwest corner of Vermont
 
Gene51 wrote:
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

A good argument for knowing what you are doing . . . Just sayin'



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Jun 13, 2018 06:44:39   #
tomcat
 
Gene51 wrote:
If you thought that exposure was terrible, then what would you say about this image?

The point I am making is that a proper exposure is less about how "nice" an image is when you view it on the preview screen or look at the jpeg on your computer screen or print, and has a mid-gray object in it that looks like it does in reality. But more about recording the important parts of the scene, with detail, in such a way that with some manipulation you can extract all of the details, tones and colors to make a complete image. Mnay photographers are proud to state that they do not spend any time manipulating their images. I say that they are "leaving money on the table" by not taking their images and improving contrast, sharpening, dodging and burning, as the photographer who took the picture below did, in order to create a better image. So the first image is a correct exposure, and the ultimate result bears that out.
If you thought that exposure was terrible, then wh... (show quote)


It's an "ok" print

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Jun 13, 2018 06:44:46   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
canadaboy wrote:
Discounting special effects such as high or low key etc, if asked how I might define correct exposure I could say something like "were it a scene that includes a mid Grey object, correct exposure would be settings that make the object appear as a similar tone in the completed image".

How would you define it?


My correct exposure is defined as "what pleases me is the correct exposure".

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Jun 13, 2018 07:12:27   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
And if one is not viewing a print the result will also depend upon the brightness of the screen and its color calibration.

a6k wrote:
My suggested answers to a question with many right answers but even more wrong ones:

As Adams suggested when different technology was involved, the best negative is the one that lets you make the best print.

But we are not using negatives and we are not always printing. Of course, in B&W darkroom work the target paper also varied.

So to extrapolate, the best exposure is that which allows you to make the best print or to make the best digitally displayable final image (usually a JPG, of course). In other words, the best final image quality.

I would not use "middle gray/grey" as my standard for this for at least two reasons.
1. In my inept but empirically oriented testing I found that a middle gray (about 18%) target does not result in a value of 128 (where 256 is max). I have learned through reading that other people's cameras don't necessarily work to the same intended result (some assume that the target is 12%, some 18% and so on).
2. For a variety of reasons, the best image quality will usually be obtained at the "right end" of the possible range of exposures, short of "blown". In this concept, image quality includes "noise" as a negative characteristic. An obvious exception might be when stopping down the lens even one stop would sharpen the picture to a greater extent than the consequent loss of quality due to noise.

Of course, my comments assume that the original file is "raw" and with no more compression than the camera insists upon. Just as obviously, then, my comments assume that the photographer will do post exposure processing. I'm also ignoring color balance issues which can affect exposure in ways that are too complex for me to even understand let alone include here. But my bottom line is that middle gray is not even well defined and does not take into account the dynamic range issue. Adams knew that he had gobs of latitude (AKA DR) and also usually had subjects with a large range of reflected light values. Unless our subjects are similar, taking advantage of the modern digital camera's abilities makes a lot of sense.

As a tactic, using a gray card to set exposure, when you know where in the range of possible "densities" it will fall for your camera makes sense. So does "sunny 16" which is just as scientific as the way that Adams set the exposure for the example given earlier in this thread. But I would not say that it's sufficient, only a good starting point.

Anyhow, there's only the intended result and the technique you use to get there. If they are a perfect match then that is the best exposure.
My suggested answers to a question with many right... (show quote)

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Jun 13, 2018 07:21:25   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Joe Blow wrote:
By whatever makes me happy.



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Jun 13, 2018 07:42:34   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
That is quite simple. The f-stop is determined by taking the square root of the ISO. The shutter speed is the reciprocal of the number of foot candles of light measured from the middle grey object.

Thus, if one is using an ISO of 100 and the light reflected from the middle gray object is 250 foot-candles, the exposure will be 1/250 at f/10.
--Bob

canadaboy wrote:
Discounting special effects such as high or low key etc, if asked how I might define correct exposure I could say something like "were it a scene that includes a mid Grey object, correct exposure would be settings that make the object appear as a similar tone in the completed image".

How would you define it?

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Jun 13, 2018 08:05:34   #
Steamboat
 
When you have captured sufficient information to make the print/image you desire?

Every print needs some post ....does that make the exposure incorrect.

Correct exposure always depends on the subject and the end result desires?

Post #7and 6 Gene51 has it spot on, with that great AA example!

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Jun 13, 2018 08:08:11   #
canadaboy
 
rmalarz wrote:
That is quite simple. The f-stop is determined by taking the square root of the ISO. The shutter speed is the reciprocal of the number of foot candles of light measured from the middle grey object.

Thus, if one is using an ISO of 100 and the light reflected from the middle gray object is 250 foot-candles, the exposure will be 1/250 at f/10.
--Bob


And so the squaw on the hippopotamus is equal to the sum of the squaws on the other two hides...... got it. LOL.

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Jun 13, 2018 08:13:59   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Interesting reply. Let's see. You joined this group just a couple of days ago. You ask a reasonable question, to which I provided a factual and documented answer. Then you reply with this. Your reply would tend to lead one to negative conclusions about your personality and likeability.
--Bob
canadaboy wrote:
And so the squaw on the hippopotamus is equal to the sum of the squaws on the other two hides...... got it. LOL.

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Jun 13, 2018 09:06:37   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Generally, a correct exposure captures editable information in the highlight area and in the shadow area of the image.

Overexposure fails to capture enough information in the highlight area for manipulation.

Underexposure as a rule will fail to capture enough information to produce detail in the shadow area.

One source defines correct exposure thus: "The act of having correct exposure means your combination of settings between aperture, shutter speed and ISO speed have produced a perfectly exposed image. When nothing is blown out (highlights) or lost in shadow in an image, it has achieved correct exposure." (found at: https://www.canon.com.au/explore/glossary/correct-exposure)

Hope this reply helps.
canadaboy wrote:
Discounting special effects such as high or low key etc, if asked how I might define correct exposure I could say something like "were it a scene that includes a mid Grey object, correct exposure would be settings that make the object appear as a similar tone in the completed image".

How would you define it?

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Jun 13, 2018 09:22:03   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
Correct exposure is exactly what you like in your photograph. If you want a dark sky and it is flat white you did not get the right exposure. Useless to say that the exposure of your meter is a normal exposure but not necessarily the correct one.

Because all exposure meters average tonalities to a middle gray (18% tonality) only when the subject is a middle tonality the normal exposure of the meter will be the correct one. Meter from a dark or bright area, which are not middle tonalities and now your normal exposure by the camera is the incorrect one. I am sure you know that exposure compensation in such cases is mandatory for the correct exposure.

Metering from a gray card keeps you in the ballpark but I do not believe that you feel like carrying a gray card with you at all times. An incident exposure meter also keeps you in the ballpark but its use is limited like when photographing sunsets for which it is not recommended.

Compared to film digital has a wider dynamic range in the order of about 13 stops with modern sensors. Its weakness (digital exposure) is for the bright areas because if improperly exposed they will clip resulting in an overexpose file that will be totally useless. ALWAYS meter from an important highlight and correct the exposure accordingly or like many photographers advocate, expose to the right to obtain the most information without clipping the highlights.

You will read in the Net that an accurate histogram keeps a fair distribution of pixels all across the histogram. That has not worked for me and I have seen many times with my cameras that a "correct" histogram has fallen kind of short in the middle tonalities, something I had to correct to my taste in post using LEVELS.

So, what is correct exposure. Technically speaking it will be a photograph where all tonalities are represented properly but from the practical standpoint it is the exposure that satisfies your artistic needs.

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Jun 13, 2018 09:22:31   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
anotherview wrote:
Generally, a correct exposure captures editable information in the highlight area and in the shadow area of the image.

Overexposure fails to capture enough information in the highlight area for manipulation.

Underexposure as a rule will fail to capture enough information to produce detail in the shadow area.

One source defines correct exposure thus: "The act of having correct exposure means your combination of settings between aperture, shutter speed and ISO speed have produced a perfectly exposed image. When nothing is blown out (highlights) or lost in shadow in an image, it has achieved correct exposure." (found at: https://www.canon.com.au/explore/glossary/correct-exposure)

Hope this reply helps.
Generally, a correct exposure captures editable in... (show quote)

Many of us often purposely choose not to have a "correct exposure". Sometimes, as an example I may want detail to be lost in the shadows to create a specific mood.

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Jun 13, 2018 09:46:05   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
tomcat wrote:
It's an "ok" print


Then you must be an OK photographer. . .

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