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Crop frame camera with full frame lens
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Apr 19, 2018 14:58:14   #
Bruce Moore
 
Camera Shake.
I know that to avoid camera shake I need a shutter speed at least equal to my focal length. Because of the crop factor when mixing EFS Canon camera with full frame lens, I don't know whether I should match the lenses stated length eg 300 or the 480 because of the crop sensor. Any advice would be appreciated.

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Apr 19, 2018 15:06:42   #
CO
 
The minimum shutter speed should be 1/(focal length times crop factor). So you should have a minimum shutter speed of 1/480 second with the 300mm lens.

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Apr 19, 2018 15:10:07   #
Bruce Moore
 
Yes thank you. That makes sense. Do I need to know what the crop factor is across the zoom range. Many thanks for your reply. Really helpful.

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Apr 19, 2018 15:10:12   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Bruce Moore wrote:
Camera Shake.
I know that to avoid camera shake I need a shutter speed at least equal to my focal length. Because of the crop factor when mixing EFS Canon camera with full frame lens, I don't know whether I should match the lenses stated length eg 300 or the 480 because of the crop sensor. Any advice would be appreciated.

A 100 mm lens is a 100 mm lens no matter what mount/camera type so the minimum SS should be multiplied by the crop factor. I know you asked about 300 mm but 100 is easier to do quickly in my head. ie: on APS-C Canon the minimum shutter speed becomes 1/160 instead of the 1/100 on a FF having an EF or EF-S mount doesn't matter.
Now stabilization will enter in and being braced, monopod or tripod etc.
Now some claim the crop factor doesn't enter in, but most say it does and as long a the light etc allows the higher shutter speed my feeling is "why not", unless you are trying for motion blur in water etc. I do mostly birds and other moving things so hardly ever use SS that slow anyway. I live in a windy area so even my backyard flowers usually move.

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Apr 19, 2018 15:10:39   #
Bruce Moore
 
Sorry I meant So...I need to know etc...

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Apr 19, 2018 15:10:57   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
CO wrote:
The minimum shutter speed should be 1/(focal length times crop factor). So you should have a minimum shutter speed of 1/480 second with the 300mm lens.



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Apr 19, 2018 15:13:04   #
Bruce Moore
 
Thank you. That's really useful information. Appreciated.

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Apr 19, 2018 15:16:58   #
JPringle Loc: Australia
 
Hi Bruce - I'm going to suggest that as the focal length doesn't actually change, there's no extra magnification of movement, and so neither should your rule.

But, I'm not so sure the rule should be considered absolute anyway. So there are a few other things you can practice with to get the shutter speed down too.
These would include good posture and stance. The Jo McNally hold. Good camera holding technique. And good breathing technique. A lot of this stuff is also taught to military snipers.

Now I find that panning changes some of the dynamics too, giving a crisp subject against a motion blurred background at slower than the rule shutter speeds. And I think sometimes, so can burst shooting, on some of the faster cameras.

With and without modern IS, I seem to be able to hand hold 300 and 400mm lenses at 1/125 and below in less than optimum lighting. Now I get a lot less keepers, but I can get enough, and its a good to have technique up your sleeve.

Phil

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Apr 19, 2018 15:20:40   #
Bruce Moore
 
Hi Phil,
That's interesting. I shall experiment. The Joe McNally technique? I shall look that up as I've not heard of it.
Thank you.

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Apr 19, 2018 15:51:10   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
JPringle wrote:
Hi Bruce - I'm going to suggest that as the focal length doesn't actually change, there's no extra magnification of movement, and so neither should your rule.

But, I'm not so sure the rule should be considered absolute anyway. So there are a few other things you can practice with to get the shutter speed down too.
These would include good posture and stance. The Jo McNally hold. Good camera holding technique. And good breathing technique. A lot of this stuff is also taught to military snipers.

Now I find that panning changes some of the dynamics too, giving a crisp subject against a motion blurred background at slower than the rule shutter speeds. And I think sometimes, so can burst shooting, on some of the faster cameras.

With and without modern IS, I seem to be able to hand hold 300 and 400mm lenses at 1/125 and below in less than optimum lighting. Now I get a lot less keepers, but I can get enough, and its a good to have technique up your sleeve.

Phil
Hi Bruce - I'm going to suggest that as the focal ... (show quote)


It's not the focal length that affects camera motion, it's the angle of view. And since a given lens on a crop sensor camera has a narrower field of view than on a full frame, the crop factor should be applied. But you are right, it's not an absolute rule, but a guideline. Some people are naturally steadier holding a camera, and practicing good camera holding techniques can allow you to use lower shutter speeds.

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Apr 19, 2018 16:01:17   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Bruce Moore wrote:
Camera Shake.
I know that to avoid camera shake I need a shutter speed at least equal to my focal length. Because of the crop factor when mixing EFS Canon camera with full frame lens, I don't know whether I should match the lenses stated length eg 300 or the 480 because of the crop sensor. Any advice would be appreciated.


The best way to arrive at the ideal is to go out and try for yourself. Don't drink coffee, tea or energy drinks on the day you plan to test . . . Breathe normally, and press the shutter at the end of the exhale. You'll be surprised at how slow a shutter speed you can shoot at.

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Apr 19, 2018 16:14:00   #
Bruce Moore
 
Right. Sadly I'm a bit shaky. Do I shall be cautious. Trying to use good posture and breathing to compensate.

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Apr 19, 2018 16:42:49   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Bruce Moore wrote:
Right. Sadly I'm a bit shaky. Do I shall be cautious. Trying to use good posture and breathing to compensate.


To avoid confusion of who you are replying to use "quote reply" as I did in this post.

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Apr 19, 2018 17:06:15   #
JPringle Loc: Australia
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
It's not the focal length that affects camera motion, it's the angle of view. And since a given lens on a crop sensor camera has a narrower field of view than on a full frame, the crop factor should be applied. But you are right, it's not an absolute rule, but a guideline. Some people are naturally steadier holding a camera, and practicing good camera holding techniques can allow you to use lower shutter speeds.


Right - Thanks - I'll have to get my head around the Angle of View thing, not intuitive for me at all. And weird, I'm sure, but I'm more successful with slower shutter speeds (according to the 'rule') with tele lengths than wide angle lenses!!

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Apr 19, 2018 17:08:36   #
Bruce Moore
 
robertjerl wrote:
To avoid confusion of who you are replying to use "quote reply" as I did in this post.


Thanks for the advice.

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