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The Spectrum of Intent for Nude Photography - Where does your work fall?
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Apr 19, 2018 12:59:01   #
InfiniteISO Loc: The Carolinas, USA
 
I've been thinking about how I, or other photographers would categorize the nude images I take. I will be the first to admit that I tend to plan and take images that make me, as a red-blood, heterosexual male happy. I enjoy the beauty of the female form and trying to capture that beauty via my camera. I would like to think some of the images I take are artistic, but admittedly most are not. Then again, I'm rarely seeking an artistic image.

Because anything on UHH considered NSFW is going to end up here, I think it's thoughtful to consider the photographer's intent in the images they present. Intent, not execution. By showing my work here, regardless of my intent, I am looking for constructive criticism. Why? Because every image can be improved and working toward making myself a better photographer is a personal goal and the reason I share on this forum. It's not easy to take criticism well, but I'm trying to learn.

That said, it's important to state that it's OK in my mind for forum members to like a photo for the content alone. I happen to like 60s and 70s muscle cars. I can appreciate the car in a poorly executed photo. As a wannabe photographer and connoisseur of cars, I can also suggest how that car photo could be better. That applies to this section as well. What isn't helpful in this section is someone saying, "Damn, look at the wheels on that corvette!" Or conversely, "That heap belongs in the scrap yard, why are you taking photos of it."

For what it's worth, I am offering up this graphic illustration of my take on intent as it relates to nudes. Remember, intent does not necessarily translate to the finished product. So in my "spectrum" the X-axis runs from Prurient to Artistic, and the Y-axis runs from Candid to Orchestrated. Prurient is a better word in my mind than pornographic. Orchestrated connotes the presence of studio craft in all its many forms. Candid implies a photo of opportunity and in some cases, it can apply to an entire set of images.

So as photographers if your intended work falls in the Yellow corner, you're striving for a different goal than if your image falls in the Red corner. I would guess most people on this site are expecting images that are shades of orange, yellow or green or perhaps somewhere in that muddled, middle section. Full red images would cause a fuss here, and violet images are so bad, on so many different scales, that they truly don't belong here.

Me? A lot of my work, regardless of whether you find it legitimate or not, is going to be orange-ish. Call it cheesecake, pin-up, erotic, whatever, that's where I'm living photographically right now in this genre.

Where are you? Do you ever feel your peer's perceptions of your work are different than your intentions?


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Apr 19, 2018 13:07:25   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
Nice work, ISO. I like to stay in the Yellow area.

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Apr 19, 2018 14:10:04   #
InfiniteISO Loc: The Carolinas, USA
 
An example of Green-ish intent. Shooting indoors and a rain shower came up. The model moved outdoors in the clothes she was wearing and posed for several dozen images as she got soaked. No planing or studio craft, but the intention in the poses was to create artistic leaning images.


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Apr 19, 2018 15:27:17   #
JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.
 
I like your suggestion for scoring, but I have a few suggestions. First, you need a grid system to allow folks to score less defined colors quantitatively (sorry, but that is my scientist background driving me). Second, you have talked about intent, but I can only judge execution. So maybe you can score what you intended and I can score what I see. The scalar distance between these two coordinates would be an indicator of your success (shorter is better... unlike in some things;-)).

For this photo I would score it as [+2,-1] (on an [x,y] grid of range -5 to +5 for each axis).

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Apr 19, 2018 16:06:38   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
Can't an image be prurient and artistic, as in erotic art?

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Apr 19, 2018 16:13:38   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
That's the grey color. And there's 50 shades of grey.
JohnSwanda wrote:
Can't an image be prurient and artistic, as in erotic art?

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Apr 19, 2018 16:28:51   #
InfiniteISO Loc: The Carolinas, USA
 
JohnFrim wrote:
I like your suggestion for scoring, but I have a few suggestions. First, you need a grid system to allow folks to score less defined colors quantitatively (sorry, but that is my scientist background driving me). Second, you have talked about intent, but I can only judge execution. So maybe you can score what you intended and I can score what I see. The scalar distance between these two coordinates would be an indicator of your success (shorter is better... unlike in some things;-)).

For this photo I would score it as [+2,-1] (on an [x,y] grid of range -5 to +5 for each axis).
I like your suggestion for scoring, but I have a f... (show quote)


Oh,so we're going to try and quantify this? There's a geek in every crowd, LOL. I understand you're score, and I guess it's not too bad. I wasn't thinking about hard and fast numbers, just a way to tell you approximately where my head was when I triggered the shutter. My poorly proposed scale wasn't about quality. That's for you to judge. I really want you to look at the image as you would any other and offer criticism as you normally would. Is it in focus, properly cropped, processed too much or too little, etc. There are aspects of judging a photo that are universal. Similarly, there are aspects of judging a photo that are situational.

For example, if I shoot an image that's definitely meant to approach the "artistic" and leave a roll of gaffer's tape in the foreground that's a legitimate thing to point out. If I snap a shot of the model running across the studio chased by a bee and there's gaffer's tape in the foreground, different story.

As for this series of shots, it's not often I have a venue where my model can strip down in the rain without getting arrested. If I set about trying to stage this image, I would have had an elaborate sprinkler system and assistants holding reflectors, etc. In my mind this is more toward the candid than your assessment but there you go. The minute you try to improve on the candid situation, it's not candid any more; kind of like Schrodinger's cat. There were some great moments in this shower when it was raining hard and sunny at the same time, probably exactly what it would have looked like, if I had staged it.

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Apr 19, 2018 16:34:50   #
InfiniteISO Loc: The Carolinas, USA
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
Can't an image be prurient and artistic, as in erotic art?
See I would think that's the Red corner. It shows a high degree of studio craft, but the subject matter is Prurient. Any image intended to fall along the top edge is highly orchestrated. Maybe it's just Artistic was the wrong term for that end of the X-Axis, but you get my point I hope. I would say that many of Helmut Newton's more erotic images had a Red corner intention.

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Apr 19, 2018 16:40:04   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
InfiniteISO wrote:
See I would think that's the Red corner. It shows a high degree of studio craft, but the subject matter is Prurient. Any image intended to fall along the top edge is highly orchestrated. Maybe it's just Artistic was the wrong term for that end of the X-Axis, but you get my point I hope. I would say that many of Helmut Newton's more erotic images had a Red corner intention.


I would call Helmet Newton's erotic work an example of both prurient and artistic.

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Apr 19, 2018 16:52:31   #
InfiniteISO Loc: The Carolinas, USA
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
I would call Helmet Newton's erotic work an example of both prurient and artistic.


Exactly, so let's change Artistic to "Mainstream", and consider any image that is highly orchestrated to be striving to achieve artistic recognition. Art is in the eye of the beholder after all. If you have a silhouette that only implies nudity, that is more mainstream than a woman with her legs widely spread.

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Apr 19, 2018 20:32:37   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
What about Mapplethorpe?
I think the center is the grey area, the mixing bowl, the 50 shades of grey where they all meet.

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Apr 19, 2018 21:12:47   #
InfiniteISO Loc: The Carolinas, USA
 
Fotoartist wrote:
What about Mapplethorpe?
I think the center is the grey area, the mixing bowl, the 50 shades of grey where they all meet.


And perhaps my brain has just gone of the rails again and we forget the whole thing, LOL.

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Apr 19, 2018 23:10:58   #
Stardust Loc: Central Illinois
 
ISO, this is type of discussion that begs for a bunch of photographers sitting around a table in a bar and could be a deep topic. For myself, the bull's eye sweet spot is the exact center of your grid. I want to orchestrate enough that I have an idea what I want to accomplish or head towards, with the model, background, lighting, depth, etc. being as close as to my idea of the shot (and yet, in reality it seldom happens, well, because it is being orchestrated) but at the same time I want it look like I just swung my camera up, the model struck a pleasing position and I shot. Kind of that duck peacefully gliding on the surface of the water, while underneath it is paddling like crazy. I also always look to have the model in an artistic (I prefer natural looking) pose, but still project she is a living, breathing, unique, slightly sinful individual versus looking like a statue. I can shoot those in a museum. Again, I seldom achieve exactly what I want but isn't that what drives us to keep shooting - striving to get better, chasing the perfect shot?

IMHO the best comments here on this site are the ones that give suggestions on how the shot could have been better (to their eye) or what they liked about it. Obviously everyone's ego likes to hear complimentary comments but those that state "don't like it" or "would have been better if her hair was a different color" or "don't like her tattoos" or "she should be younger (older, taller, shorter), etc. I do not find of any value. Some need more explanation, others are out of the photographer's control. One of the best lessons I learned early in live and has served me well is the Serenity Prayer... "Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the Wisdom to know the difference." Think we should apply it to our photography with each shot, knowing what we have in our power to control and what we can't. Your posted shot of your model in the rain (or a previous one with the sun hitting the horizon already as it set) where somewhat determined by time, so should not be judged by the same standards as those in a studio, which can be determined by the eye paying attention to details. Same goes for time period - photos shot 50 years ago by an inexperienced photographer first learning the craft, with equipment considered primitive by today's standards, and photos printed directly out of the camera should not have to meet the same standard as today's cameras, with all the bells, whistles, automation, etc., plus the ability to remove almost EVERY error in post production and make the photo better than it really was. In "real" photography there are power lines, ugly objects in the background, flaws on the model's body, etc. that sometimes can't be worked around. Today, all those get removed. Difference between shooting your model (or mine) versus looking at a high-gloss, high-end magazine's model is one is real, the other only exists in Photoshop. Okay, starting to drift, but my 2-cents.

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Apr 19, 2018 23:30:51   #
Stardust Loc: Central Illinois
 
InfiniteISO wrote:
An example of Green-ish intent. Shooting indoors and a rain shower came up. The model moved outdoors in the clothes she was wearing and posed for several dozen images as she got soaked. No planing or studio craft, but the intention in the poses was to create artistic leaning images.


My eye sees this just a little right of center towards the Artistic and well down towards Candid but doesn't quite project the art of the rain falling on her, water running down her body, hair wetter, soaking her clothing, etc. You mentioned you took several dozen pics so maybe one a minute or two later does this? And, I like this better cropped at the middle of her skirt. Her leg position projects more angst to me than the falling rain should be.

One other comment - you mentioned in your main post you want to learn but it is not easy to take criticism well. May I suggest (and I may be wrong) it is because you are having trouble separating the model from the photograph because it is your wife, thus automatically on the defensive if anything negative is said. (Know I would be). Might be interesting to post some of the other ladies from your group shoots (if they will allow it) and see if you react the same to the comments?

One last comment on this thread - I categorize my nudes (and all photographs) by (1) do I like the photo or (2) do I not like it. That's it. I shoot or view what I like, don't try to define it. I really like steak, medium rare. I never think about where the cow was raised, what it was fed, how it was killed. The steak is either good or it isn't.

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Apr 20, 2018 04:51:24   #
InfiniteISO Loc: The Carolinas, USA
 
A better shot from that set perhaps


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