DebAnn Loc: Toronto

Any of you who have siblings will hopefully understand my problem! I am shooting at my niece's wedding, along with my sister. We both have strong opinions on how to go about this. I have been photographing family events for about 40 years. She is my youngest sister and a more recent photographer. When my niece asked me to photograph the wedding, I asked her to also invite my sister - to avoid her feeling ignored. However, it now seems that we are in for a bit of a fight on who does what and how the various requirements will be covered. Can any of you wedding photographers suggest how to shoot a wedding with two photographers working as a team - without killing each other!
Thanks in advance for your input.
P.S. Unfortunately I come from a family of 8 siblings who, for reasons I don't understand, find it necessary to compete for attention.

Old Timer Loc: Greenfield, In.

I would politely decline and defer to my sister and tell the bride that you made and error in using both. You probably should have ask your sister to assist you instead of sharing responsibility. You can not have two who disagree and be successful. Set back and enjoy the wedding. I would image your sister would say you also want all the attention and control. Good luck any way you choose to go. I

Stardust Loc: Central Illinois

This is a man's viewpoint but I worked in sales & marketing, making 1000's of presentations over my career. Whenever a "boss" wanted to make one with me, I always had one question... "this is a one-person act, so do you want to do it or want me to do it?" Otherwise, the other person often "steps" on where you are leading your audience or on the order you are proceeding, etc. even if not intentionally. Therefore, having also shot over 300 weddings in my "previous life", I believe this will also apply to your shoot. Unless an assistant is needed to set lights, load/hand you cameras, whatever, this is a one-person show. And, worse the two of you shooting could become the center of attention when this is your niece's day and you should be part of the woodwork. So, my suggestion would be:
1> You, your sister and your niece should sit down and you should state "the more I have thought about this we don't want to interfere with your day with two of us shooting and drawing attention to ourselves so why don't you choose which you would prefer. We both love you and want you to be happy."
2> You could even give your niece a heads up, but stay neutral or support your sister, so she could have time to think about this.
3> Be willing to let the other sister shoot the wedding, or if you want to start joining the professional ranks, even suggest it by offering your younger sibling the opportunity to gain more experience. Sometimes the best jobs are the ones you are willing to walk away. Then just enjoy attending.

The true problem here is expressed in your "PS" in that it is all about you two sisters competing, without regards to what is best for the niece. You have proved yourself to the family over 40 years so maybe don't have to be the center of attention on this one. Anyway, you asked, and that is my 50 years of business and photography experience's answer.

Stardust Loc: Central Illinois

By the time I got my answer completely written you had posted. But us "Old Timers" we were in exact agreement. <lol>

crazydaddio Loc: Toronto Ontario Canada

Might be a little late but here goes...

There is only 1 boss at any shoot. Wedding photography is not a collaboration, it is a dictatorship.

I have been primary and also secondary.

My secondary sometimes gets weddings and will ask me to be his second. I will do exactly what he says when he says it in every moment. And vice versa. We have no problem being leader OR follower. If this is an issue on either side...end the partnership before the wedding happens.

Without this clarity, you will have chaos. Your 2nd will be "in the shot" half the time or worse simply undermine you.

When I am 2nd, i never comment on what is happening to the clients or their guests. Always direct that back to the primary. I am a soldier under the command of the leader.

You and your sister need to establish this or she will need to be fired asap.

...having said all that, once you have established the above clarity, THEN collaboration can happen and you can request ideas from your 2nd at various moments or temporsrily give shot control to the 2nd at certain points. All within the understanding that you are the boss and decisions are yours. Planning together and strategizing about certain "live" shots like the aisle walk are critical.

A good 2nd as your partner is invaluable. If its a civil war...no one will be happy.

Sorry for the rather direct language but you will need to have the nature of this guidance delivered quite lovingly with your sister without losing the ability to be clear.

Good luck and let us know in this thread how it worked out...

Heather Iles Loc: UK, Somerset

Deb, Whatever you do isn't going to be right and someone will get offended and misinterpret your meaning. Just think of the saying "you can choose your friends, but not your family", so go along with a smile, take a deep breath (it stops you from getting cross) and ALWAYS SUGGEST TO YOUR SISTER THAT SHE GOES FIRST and hope that she gets the message and do the same to you. That way everyone will be happy and they will be none that wiser that you wished that you weren't there. Happy shooting and I am sure that your photos will be the best.

Finally, the hardest part of all is whose photos will be chosen by the bride. Just keep smiling Deb.

ronz Loc: Florida

As has been stated, there can only be one lead photographer. For over 25 years I shot weddings and my assistants knew what they were to capture and where and what I would be shooting. You are in a difficult situation since it is all family and as was suggested I would politely back out explaining that to get the best for the niece it would be best to step aside. Possibly not true but to keep harmony in the family. I know several professionals (husband & wife) who shoot weddings and they rarely have bad feelings after a shoot. If I shoot a very large wedding and I have a second and sometimes a third assistant. I have yet to have a problem though I do listen to their ideas and not play Hitler. Our pre wedding talks work out assignments ahead of time and each have eyes open for anything special that may happen. Good luck

DebAnn Loc: Toronto

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies. Much appreciated.
Deb

Weddingguy Loc: British Columbia - Canada

A ship can only have one captain !

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Hi Deb!

The last thing I want to do on this forum, is discourage photographers from trying their hand at different kinds of photography, experimenting and delving in all manners of the craft. In the field of weddings, as a long time professional photographer and old "family guy" who has seen my share of wedding (photographic) chaos and mess ups, I do have some rather single minded, biased and somewhat prejudiced opinions.

My advice is simple: If the bride and groom can afford it and if the services in the geographic location are available, the should hire a credentialed, highly recommended, consummate professional wedding photographer.

A true professional can assess the requirements of each and every of his or her clients, provide enough staff and backup to cover each assignment and does not require the assistance of anyone outside of their own people. I hate to use old hackneyed adages but "too many cooks spoil the broth" is a commandment of wedding photography. I don't want to get into a litany of horror stories but I have seen too many weddings turn into a "camera club event" to where it becomes, confusing, obnoxious and/or intrusive and the results never justify the inconvenience, confusion and distraction.

I have even seen situations where the couple themselves "couldn't care less" about their wedding photography and relegated it to amateurs and friends or even did not care to cooperate with their own professional photographer in a cavalier manner. After the fact however, after experiencing the emotions of the ceremony and the joyousness of the celebration, they became critical "afficanadios" of fine photography and were sorely disappointed in the results.

Many amateurs calm that an "outsider" can not know the dynamics of their family- who's who and what they do kinda thing. This is a very wrong assumption. A seasoned pro plans these aspects in advance, takes notes, askes vital questions and even if he or she shows up "cold turkey" has instincts that and experience and will know who, where and when to shoot. A seasoned professional needn't be a dictator or a pushover but rather has to provide a balanced approach to each individual situation and manage to maintain control and access to each part of the event.

Another argument I hear is that it is best to have "everyone" taking pictures in case the official photographer messes up, has equipment failure etc. Again, a true professional has more than adequate backup equipment and staff. In my own particular case we have enough gear to cover 6 weddings at one wedding and even if I were to become incapacitated, let alone my cameras, there is enough personnelle on site to complete the job after I would be carted off the the hospital or the funeral home.

Many folks- non professionals, would never think it necessary, wise or helpful to undertake or integrate themselves with the work of a professional caterer, florist, dressmaker, band or DJ or other wedding service provider but feel that their photographic prowess and experience is at a level to successfully and comprehensively cover a wedding. To put it mildly, that is very debatable and highly unlikely.

I can not know what is traditional, customary, commonplace, popular or practicable in every geographic location or in every socioeconomic, ethnic, religious group of for that matter in every family. I can only advise based on my own experiences after 50+ years in the business and having covered a very wide variety of weddings in all the aforementioned categories.

I offer this opinion with sincerity and kindness and without any resentment or deriding of amateur photographers or professionals that are not conversant with the demands placed on wedding specialists.

Ed

DebAnn Loc: Toronto

Thanks for your input Ed. I appreciate your point of view.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

Hi DebAnn. Not sure if you still plan on doing this. While I agree with Ed, in order to help you, or someone else in the same situation, or maybe the B&G can't or don't want to pay for a pro, I'll assume that you want to if you can make it work. (wow, that was a long sentence)

What you're talking about is pretty much like a typical wedding for me (2 to 3 shooters), I'd like to chime in.

First, you and your sister, in order to give this wedding the attention it deserves, need to come to an agreement that it isn't about your or your pride, but it's about the Bride and Groom, and giving them a beautiful memory of the wedding. They really don't need to ever witness the bickering, so keep them out if it.

First, whoever was asked first, should be considered the "first shooter." If I'm reading it correctly, that would be you. It doesn't mean that only you get to take all the "glory" photos, but it means that someone has to be the adult and keep track of who will be doing what. I know several really good wedding photographers, that hate the formals, and they prefer to do detail and environmental photos.

So, first, come up with a shot list. This would best be done with the B&G's help.
There are multiple angles for each shot, so one can take photos from the back of the church, getting the brides and bridesmaids getting ready to come down the aisle, and the other one can be getting the bridesmaids coming down the aisle from the front, and capturing the grooms face when he first sees the bride.
The one in the back can get the faces of people seeing the bride (they all stand and turn towards the bride, lots of emotion) while the person in the front of the church gets the father and the bride.

If you both get together and agree that it's petty and not worth ruining the wedding day, then you can visit the venue actually talk to each other and work around where to stand to avoid being in each other's shots. It can be rewarding, and a good team building experience.

I don't work with my sister, but I have had my daughters (who don't always like to listen to their dad) as well as my hired second shooters. It seems that most with the artistic personality required for this work, tend to be very sensitive, and feel like our way is the only way. The longer you do this, the more you learn that it isn't about you, and it never was.

I hope it helps, but the first step is to have that discussion, then you can move forward and actually do the outstanding job you want to do for your niece.

DebAnn Loc: Toronto

Thanks Bkyser (sorry, don't know your first name). That is very sound advice. We are going ahead with the shoot. We've done this for other members of the family and I was always asked first so have made all the arrangements for who shoots what etc. I don't really understand why this time it's different and my sister is jockeying for position, so to speak. Yesterday, the bride provided her list of requested shots, names of participants etc. We are meeting with her in two weeks to discuss specifics. I will try to keep my cool! We are both very competent photographers so hopefully we can get the job done with no untoward stress.

jaysnave Loc: Central Ohio

Debann,

I finally decided to chime in here, however reading the recent replies Bob (Bkyser) pretty much covered what I would have said. I will just add some encouragement. It is time for the sisterhood to bond together and produce great images. If you get a great image of the groom's look on his face as the bride is coming down the aisle and the bride walking down the aisle with her father then BOOM everyone wins. It doesn't matter who took what image. If you get great formals, it doesn't matter who did the posing or who brought the expressions & clicked the shutter. The goal is great images. Go get it done and show the world what sisters can do!

DebAnn Loc: Toronto

Thanks so much for chiming in - much appreciated!