bellgamin Loc: Ewa Beach, Hawaii

When shopping for used cameras, I always look for each camera's shutter count. In line with caveat emptor, I have a few questions.....

1) I own a few Nikons. One of them is a D300 dslr. How would I determine this camera's shutter count? Is the technique the same for all makes and types of cameras?

2) Could a seller *adjust* a camera's shutter count so as to misrepresent the usage of the camera? Is it impossible to fudge the count or merely difficult? Would "refurbished" play any role in a camera's shutter count?

3) I read somewhere that the average life expectancy of shutters on recently made, good quality cameras is around 100,000 clicks. But I have seen cameras with much higher shutter counts than 100,000 rated as condition Excellent. What IS a reasonable shutter count max?

4) As far as I could tell, KEH gives their used cameras an adjectival rating (such as excellent, good, bargain, ugly) but do not give shutter count -- at least, not as I have ever seen. I wonder why?

5) Many Ebay sellers do not reveal shutter count. I even ran across an experienced seller with a 99.8% rating who wrote, "I don't know the shutter count." I avoid sellers who do not disclose click count, but I wonder if that is a fully valid criterion on my part?

Thanks for any comments you may care to offer. Aloha from Hawaii. 😇

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52476548
https://www.camerashuttercount.com/
--Bob

CPR Loc: Nature Coast of Florida

In camerashuttercount.com Some cameras, like my D5300, will provide the number on a raw file but not a jpg that's been processed.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Hey bellgamin, consider some simple math regarding shutter counts. If you had a camera for 3 calendar years, shot 1000 images per week (roughly the RAW capacity of a 32GB card for a 24MP body) and you did this every week for 50 of the 52 weeks every year for these three years, you'd be at 150,000 exactly. Does that describe your camera usage style? You can plug-in the expected usage numbers and calculate your own expected shutter count over time.

Just like cars, a camera does not typically stop working when the odometer crosses a certain threshold. Some will die well before the published shutter count expectation. Canons and Nikons provide shutter counts differently, if at all, to the consumer. KEH does not provide counts on their equipment. If the customer is concerned, they can check and return equipment, no questions asked, for 10-days after the purchase. On ebay the sales are final unless some aspect of the listing is inconsistent with the actual equipment, when received.

A camera with a relatively high shutter count should have a price that reflects that level of usage. A body with even 50% of the published expected life, is that a protential problem? Use the calculation above to estimate your own usage pattern and consider whether you might ever reach the published shutter count.

mas24 Loc: Southern CA

Nikon does not reverse shutter counts on their cameras. Even, if you get a new shutter replacement. I remember an old friend telling me, he changed odometer mileages on used cars, when he was a young adult. To fool buyers. He still feels guilty today having done that. Here is an additional link. www.nikonshuttercount.com

DaveC1 Loc: South East US

I'll through one more question in here. Suppose you have the shutter replaced in your camera is there any way to reset the shutter count? Is the shutter count hardware/firmware/software associated with the shutter mechanism or part of the overall software/operating system of the camera in, at least Nikon and Canon's cases?

I will report on Olympus Evolt 4/3 cameras the shutter count is readable off the LCD through a series of button pushes that gets you to the service menus (I believe this is the only way to read it.)

DaveC1 Loc: South East US

The link you provided will give one the shutter count associated with that particular jpg, but can you provide some documentation regarding the shutter count and the replacement of the camera shutter? thanks,

DaveC1 Loc: South East US

This link would seem to indicate that Nikon usually does reset the shutter count when they replace the shutter, but not always, which would indicate that its not embedded in the shutter assembly but part of the camera OS.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/2681063

mas24 Loc: Southern CA

I knew someone who owned a Nikon D750. His camera was recalled for a shutter replacement. The shutter count was not rolled back.

rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA

The reported 100,000 shutter cycles is know an mean time between failure, MTBF, and is an average of the anticipated life of the mechanism. The D810 has a middle life of 100,000, but there are models reported with in excess of 500,000.

This guy is the shutter count fanatic:

https://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/

And yes, if Nikon replaces the shutter mechanism, the shutter count is not rolled back.

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

I like Jeffrey's Exif Reader. You supply an image from your computer or a URL and it gives you everything it can find there. And there's lots of stuff in the EXIF data.

http://exif.regex.info/exif.cgi

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

Many good responses have already been made, but I'll try to add a little extra value.

1) a) I own a few Nikons. One of them is a D300 dslr. How would I determine this camera's shutter count?

Lot's of ways since Nikon publishes shutter count in the EXIF data, if the file has not been modified in software. Different EXIF viewers may call the record by different names, and some EXIF viewers report different amounts of information. There is also software that can retrieve the information directly from Nikon cameras, although one regular contributor to UHH categorically denies that.

b) Is the technique the same for all makes and types of cameras?

No. Canon does not put shutter count information in EXIF data. It can be accessed in various ways, the easiest by software, on such package is EOSmsg (http://eosmsg.com/). It is not free, costing between $5 and $10 for each individual camera for as many readings as one wishes and supports many Canon, Nikon, Pentax and Sony cameras.

2) Could a seller *adjust* a camera's shutter count so as to misrepresent the usage of the camera? Is it impossible to fudge the count or merely difficult? Would "refurbished" play any role in a camera's shutter count?

To the best of my knowledge it is not possible. It is possible to edit the EXIF data in an image, but takes effort and deceit to do. Refurbished cameras - at least from the manufacturer - come with reliable shutter count information.

3) I read somewhere that the average life expectancy of shutters on recently made, good quality cameras is around 100,000 clicks. But I have seen cameras with much higher shutter counts than 100,000 rated as condition Excellent. What IS a reasonable shutter count max? 100,000 is not a bad number to work with a few may 75,000 and some 150,000 or more for high end models. It is simply an MTBF estimate (Mean or average time between failures) and no guarantee. It will depend upon your usage of course, and occasionally being lucky or unlucky, but if you capture 10,000 images per year then the camera should last about ten years, which is a long time in electronics. Shutter replacements are not horribly expensive if needed.

4) As far as I could tell, KEH gives their used cameras an adjectival rating (such as excellent, good, bargain, ugly) but do not give shutter count -- at least, not as I have ever seen. I wonder why?

I would speculate that their margins are not huge, so the cost of checking every camera would eat into their profits, and also mean that some cameras would probably languish in their inventory or have to have a significantly lower price.

5) Many Ebay sellers do not reveal shutter count. I even ran across an experienced seller with a 99.8% rating who wrote, "I don't know the shutter count." I avoid sellers who do not disclose click count, but I wonder if that is a fully valid criterion on my part?

I would speculate (again) that many do not know how to do that. Also there is the time constraint and the liability from providing too much information to a buyer, since anything deemed inaccurate is grounds for a return which erodes profits.

I hope this has been of some help.

DaveC1 Loc: South East US

According to the Nikon rumors website:

https://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=2533&page=2#post-57194

Nikon's official statement on shutter activation.

There is no way to accurately tell the total number of times your camera shutter has released. While there are third party software applications designed to read a cameras shutter count, this number is not always accurate because the shutter release times may be reset by firmware updates, or reset in the Service department if certain parts are replaced or other operations are performed.

bellgamin Loc: Ewa Beach, Hawaii

Thanks for all the helpful replies. Automobiles clearly show their mileage. I had hoped that digital cameras would do the same. It seems that they don't. The data is available but they don't advertise that fact, neither do they make it easy to get at. If they did make it easy then KEH & other shops might not mind disclosing this data in their listings. It seems that Olympus cameras are an exception ... their click count is available by a simple series of clicks.

In my opinion, shutter count should be readily available on a dslr's menu. I think it would be a selling point. I would certainly be much more likely to buy a camera with this feature, all other factors being about equal.

What I learned so far from this thread leads me to ask 3 more questions-----

==> If I buy a manufacturer refurbished camera, does that mean that, for SURE, the shutter has been restored? If not, then why bother?

==> For future reference, just in case, is there a reliable shop in the western USA that more or less specializes in dslr shutter repairs and gives a decent warranty of their work?

==> Have I blundered into a reason why it might be best to go for mirrorless cameras in the future? Might not mirrorless cameras inherently have longer average lifespans for their shutters than is the case for mirrored cameras?

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

That is very interesting. It confirms that the shutter count can actually be retrieved via software, proving that it can be done on Nikon cameras. It is even more interesting that they state that the results may be inaccurate as a result of firmware updates or service department actions. In which case it makes me wonder why they put the information in the EXIF data if it may be misleading. It can probably be tracked manually with a camera bought from new, even if f/w updates or repairs are made, but it makes it much more challenging with a used or refurbished camera.