T_Span Loc: Northern MI

For those who are not aware, this site has a section for posting ads to sell off, trade or buy photography gear. Unfortunately the administration has turned a blind eye to this section and allowed some extreme behaviour by a few members. Simple rules could be implemented and enforced to curtail such behavior.

What is going on in that forum is; there are members who have no interest at all in a listed item(s) for sale but choose to post negative remarks that affect the potential for the posting member to make a sale. Why some members think they should be getting involved in another member's business, I have no clue. This is the only photographic website that I have seen with such childish behavior.

In any event, I have been involved in being smeared and am quite upset over it. As a result I have decided to call these people out when I see them tainting someone else's ad. I will be taking quotes from their posting and include a link so everyone can see who they are and how they are trespassing. Hopefully the good members here will support this strategy in cleaning up a poorly monitored area of the HOG.

rmorrison1116 Loc: Near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania

What do you mean by trespassing? This is an open forum. No one pays a fee to join, it is open to all.
If you mean members posting derogatory replies to someone's for sale posting then I agree, there's no place for that, unless of course the for sale posting is a scam, like a new Canon EOS 5D IV for $1000. If someone posts something for sale for an unreasonable price, for example, someone posts a lens for sale for $1000 and the same lens may be purchased elsewhere for $700 then I feel the OP should know they are asking too much. There was a recent posting for a Nikkor lens and the OP didn't understand why no one was interested. Bottom line, even though his asking price seemed reasonable, it was in reality, too high for that particular lens.

T_Span Loc: Northern MI

I hear ya there.

We will just have to disagree at the appropriateness of sticking one's nose in another members business. It is not for you, or me, to decide other members logic. Neither is it our business to slander a person without solid evidence by calling them a scammer.

Your business is yours and should be respected. Other members business should also be respected. Unfortunately some folks think they are special and behave inappropriately.

If you are defending ad tainters, I along with other members hear you.

DaveO Loc: Northeast CT

There also appears to be a few members on the forum whose main interest is running a little swap shop. Oh, well...that's up to Admin and not a self-appointed wannabee sheriff.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

It is an open forum and up to the admin to police the site (which I haven't seen happen), BUT seller's do NOT appreciate this kind of behavior. Unless it's an obvious scam, it isn't really isn't anyone else's business except the seller and the buyer, and if you're not a potential buyer, then anything other than a positive comment is out-of-line. Whether or not you agree with the price, it's not up to you to point this out - the buyers are presumably adults and don't need a guardian. In addition the item for sale may not be comparable to what you find on eBay, and the conditions of sale may be different as well. Smart-assed remarks as well as criticism of the price are equally unwelcome, and as another long-standing member once said when I recieved some childish remarks about an item for sale, they should STFU. In the end, it's up to the seller to decide what he's willing to sell for, and up to a potential buyer, and no one else, what they're willing to pay. Merchandise is "worth" what you can sell it for, not what an uninterested noisey party thinks it should be.

T_Span Loc: Northern MI

Well stated TriX, your input is appreciated.

rmorrison1116 Loc: Near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania

I don't know what you mean by your last sentence. I am not defending anyone and your statement could easily be interpreted in a negative way. I also don't recall ever calling anyone in particular a scammer, or anything else. As for scammers, they are usually pretty obvious. And while we are on the subject of buying and selling on UHH, it would be nice if sellers left positive feedback for buyers who gave them a smooth transaction, and the same goes for buyer, post positive feedback for good transactions.

T_Span Loc: Northern MI

It is good that we discuss this issue, thank you for your participation.

I do not recollect you calling anyone in particular a scammer in this thread and I do not accuse you as such. You did make these statements in this thread; "unless of course the for sale posting is a scam" and "As for scammers, they are usually pretty obvious". I seriously cannot grasp how someone can judge, without a doubt, an ad to be a scam. An opinion does not constitute solid evidence of anything other than there is an opinion. Calling an innocent person a scammer is slander.

I agree that transaction feedback should be more prevalent.

The below quote came from the ad linked here. http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-474455-1.html

"Cash Only. No Trades, no credit cards, no paypal, no wire transfers, no cashiers checks, no partial payments, no scams. Would prefer local sale in San Diego as that's where I'm located. If you're not local and are a serious buyer we can discuss how to work something out, but know upfront I will not ship it anywhere without full payment received and cleared first, and I will not ship outside US. Sorry to seem so serious, but there are just too scams out there, and I won't risk being burned."

The person quite clearly stated a preference for local sale which is safe for both buyer and seller. But the ad was flamed by more than one member as a scam. It appeared to me a person covering their butt rather than an attempted scam. Did the person attempt a scam or just join here to try to make a sale? The only thing we can know for sure is that a possible asset to this community is long gone due to the treatment from some members here.

MT Shooter Loc: Montana

Excuse me, but it appears as if that is EXACTLY what you are doing by posting this!

DaveO Loc: Northeast CT

Buying/selling seems to be a major interest for this person, so he has a bit of an agenda as far a I can see. Just my opinion. Appears to trying to play watchdog/enforcer. Good luck with that. I understand some etiquette should be observed and no one should hinder a sale, but sometimes people seem to be trusting when vagueness or unrealistic pricing exits, albeit this is rare. I constantly check pricing and the majority of the time I see some pretty good offerings.

rpavich Loc: West Virginia

Is the irony of this sentence lost on you?

rpavich Loc: West Virginia

This is good advice for everyone posting what other's SHOULD do.

In the end, it's arbitrary opinion which carries no weight as to what a person should or shouldn't do.

T_Span Loc: Northern MI

I have breached this subject because I care for myself and other members here. I have had a for sale derailed and false implications to my character right here at the HOG. Another poor member had his ad made into a multi-page tax counselling session.

You are posting in critique of my thread, no problem. Will you answer this question, without digression? Is it acceptable to you for someone to get into your business dealings without being asked? A simple yes or no would suffice.

This is a community. In my communities, I voice my opinion and will work towards improving where I feel there is a need. You can take a stand and say that trespassing into another members business is ok. Fine if that is what you believe. I believe otherwise.

rpavich Loc: West Virginia

Apparently the idea of a self-defeating position is lost on you.


I'll try and simplify for you.

What is a self-defeating statement?

A self-defeating (or self-refuting) statement is one that fails to meet its own standard. In other words, it is a statement that cannot live up to its own criteria. Imagine if I were to say,

I cannot speak a word in English.

You intuitively see a problem here. I told you in English that I cannot speak a word in English. This statement is self-refuting. It does not meet its own standard or criteria. It self-destructs.

The important thing to remember with self-defeating statements is that they are necessarily false. In other words, there is no possible way for them to be true. This is because they violate a very fundamental law of logic, the law of non-contradiction. This law states that A and non-A cannot both be true at the same time and in the same sense.

rmorrison1116 Loc: Near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania

There are Web sites that specializes in the sale of used photography equipment. The main purpose of UHH is communication, not selling, that is a subcategory here. If a person's very first post on UHH is a for sale posting, no introduction, no establishing any kind of history, and the price they are asking for the merchandise is way too good, low, for example $1000 for a brand new in the box EOS 5D IV, a camera that retails for over $3000 (I know, I have one), you don't think there is the slightest possibility it may be a scam?! There is no good reason for someone to offer something like that for so cheap. Plus the highly detailed add had errors in it and it appeared on multiple Web sites.

As for your example, the poster started with cash only them continued on with examples of cash only in the form of no this or not that. Cash only is pretty easy to understand, no reason for the poster to explain what they meant by cash only. It was the going into unnecessary detail that probably triggered negative response. Unnecessary detail in a for sale posting is a red flag.