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Unhappy with sharpness
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Jul 3, 2017 09:16:02   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
will47 wrote:
I did not use a shutter release but I did have a tripod. I figured a shutter release cable might be impractical because the were birds. They don't sit still for long periods.


Fair enough, I thought that too, your Jay there is not a macro of a flower. Tripod should be enough. How does your original look to you from a normal print viewing distance? Pixel peeking makes nearly everything look bad. I don't see any fringing or other aberrations. Your expectations for adding glass might be too high.

But yes, 2x 200mm = 400mm, so a shutter of 1/400 s, better at 1/500 s. Try ISO 800.


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Jul 3, 2017 09:34:53   #
CPR Loc: Nature Coast of Florida
 
will47 wrote:
Thanks, another thing I didn't think about. When using the hi pass should I apply other sharpening first or not? Thanks.

I usually use only one filter for sharpness. I may use others for color or exposure, etc.
Don't see why you couldn't use multiple filters for sharpness but the fun of it is to "Just Try and See??" Use layers and you can turn things on and off. AND absolutely use layers with hi-pass. Hi-pass the layer copy and change Blend mode to Overlay (or play with blend also??)

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Jul 3, 2017 10:16:16   #
RixPix Loc: Miami, Florida
 
will47 wrote:
I am very unhappy with the sharpness of this photo. f5.6, ISO500, 1/100, 2x extender on a Canon 70-200mm L series f2.8 lens, tripod was used. Because of the extender and loss of f stops I had to use at least ISO 500. This was the first time I have used the extender. The extender is a EF 2x III. Any suggestions to improve sharpness? Thanks. Camera is a Canon 7D Mark II.


Overall the photo is quite good. Post Production with the correct product can yield improved results. I used Clarity from Topaz Labs to improve contrast to pop out the bird...However, the detail in the feathers was not improved. You don't mention if this lens has IS. If it does did you have it on or off?


(Download)

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Jul 3, 2017 12:19:00   #
Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California
 
for 1/100 on the shutter it isn't to bad ...

The problem you have is if you jump to 1/500 your going to loose over 2 stops and to gain it back would require you to raise the ISO to a point where that camera doesn't like it. Yes you can go to ISO-2500 to gain it back but unless your exposure is spot on you will introduce some noise. Frankly your picture IMO is slightly underexposed. If your shooting high in the ISO department, better to be a bit hot (slightly over-exposed). As is the case for most of us the triangle is a series of trade offs but remember you can't fix blur, better to increase the ISO and gain a bit of grain than to have blur as some noise is fixable ...

Agree with others on the focus point ...

If you get your shutter to 1/500 there is no need for a shutter release.

As mentioned, does your lens have IS? Remember IS helps with you moving the camera, it isn't going to fix a slow shutter problem when the subject is moving.

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Jul 3, 2017 14:19:09   #
birdpix Loc: South East Pennsylvania
 
will47 wrote:
I am very unhappy with the sharpness of this photo. f5.6, ISO500, 1/100, 2x extender on a Canon 70-200mm L series f2.8 lens, tripod was used. Because of the extender and loss of f stops I had to use at least ISO 500. This was the first time I have used the extender. The extender is a EF 2x III. Any suggestions to improve sharpness Thanks. Camera is a Canon 7D Mark II.


The 70-200L should be plenty sharp with the 2.0 extender on it. Some things to consider are:
1. You are shooting at f/5.6 which is wide open when using the extender. Lenses are not at their best wide open.
2. At 1/100 sec, subject motion can be a problem with these small birds and that can contribute to your problem.
3. at 560mm (the effective focal length) any vibration of the camera when shooting can cause some blur. Use a remote release.
4. ISOs between the multiples of 100, 200, 400, 800 can be a little more noisy due to digital enhancement thus robbing you of sharpness.
5. Depth of Field is very shallow at higher focal lengths, especially wide open. Always focus on the bird's eye. Move the focus point if you have the time.
6. Are you shooting at maximum resolution? Shooting at lower resolutions will not give the detail you want.
7. Is this photo cropped? If so, how much. This photo looks a bit noisy. Have you applied any noise filter or sharpened it?

Ed

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Jul 4, 2017 06:43:10   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
markngolf wrote:
Yes. I have same. Your shutter speed is too low. It must be a minimum of 1/focal length. Try same at 1/500. Also check your focus point. Best at precisely bird's eye.
Mark



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Jul 4, 2017 06:48:08   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Beercat wrote:
for 1/100 on the shutter it isn't to bad ...

The problem you have is if you jump to 1/500 your going to loose over 2 stops and to gain it back would require you to raise the ISO to a point where that camera doesn't like it. Yes you can go to ISO-2500 to gain it back but unless your exposure is spot on you will introduce some noise. Frankly your picture IMO is slightly underexposed. If your shooting high in the ISO department, better to be a bit hot (slightly over-exposed). As is the case for most of us the triangle is a series of trade offs but remember you can't fix blur, better to increase the ISO and gain a bit of grain than to have blur as some noise is fixable ...

Agree with others on the focus point ...

If you get your shutter to 1/500 there is no need for a shutter release.

As mentioned, does your lens have IS? Remember IS helps with you moving the camera, it isn't going to fix a slow shutter problem when the subject is moving.
for 1/100 on the shutter it isn't to bad ... br b... (show quote)


The camera is tripod mounted so IS is most likely off.

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Jul 4, 2017 09:29:42   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
I'd try a remote mounted TTL flash, preferably radio controlled. Camera on Manual, ISO 200, aperture at F8 or 11 for better DoF, shutter at 1/500 to reduce effect of incident light. Since it's a feeder, prefocus us and test beforehand.

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Jul 4, 2017 09:34:34   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
There are so many variables that could result in pictures lacking sharpness. I see that except for the bird the rest of the shot seems to have good sharpness. Perhaps your shutter speed was not high enough to stop the bird movements.
Begin using Shutter Priority to make sure that you select a speed appropriate for the subject. In this case I would say that 1/500 sec. is a good start but 1/1000 sec. would be much better. Understand that a high ISO speed will be needed to achieve high shutter speeds.
Modern cameras are very good controlling noise assuming you shoot RAW.

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Jul 4, 2017 09:51:30   #
jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ
 
will47 wrote:
I am very unhappy with the sharpness of this photo. f5.6, ISO500, 1/100, 2x extender on a Canon 70-200mm L series f2.8 lens, tripod was used. Because of the extender and loss of f stops I had to use at least ISO 500. This was the first time I have used the extender. The extender is a EF 2x III. Any suggestions to improve sharpness? Thanks. Camera is a Canon 7D Mark II.


It doesn't get much sharper than that especially at 1/100th of a second. You must have had pretty low light to be only at 1/100th. That said, the shot isn't bad. Since you can't exactly setup studio lights on wildlife, if you aren't happy with this result, you keep trying to capture but hope you score in better lighting conditions.

If I'm going to be shooting birds at a feeder I try to get them while they are still in the tree next to a feeder before they eat or just after. Most birds will NOT fly directly to the feeder but stop somewhere before and after they eat. Also, you can try using some sharpening tools in post. NIK and LR both have great tools for sharpening and removing noise.

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Jul 4, 2017 11:47:49   #
Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California
 
Architect1776 wrote:
The camera is tripod mounted so IS is most likely off.


As I mentioned, get the shutter speed up ... then there is no need for a tripod is there. Having IS when your hand held is a good thing, just asking the question to see what options there my be.

However, I do agree that when your on a tripod and you are using IS that can work against you as far as sharpness.

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Jul 4, 2017 12:08:04   #
birdpix Loc: South East Pennsylvania
 
Architect1776 wrote:
The camera is tripod mounted so IS is most likely off.


Most of Canon's lenses, including this one are "Tripod Aware" so IS on or off is not a concern. Canon does, however, suggest leaving IS on when using long lenses if there could be any camera movement caused by wind or movement of the structure the tripod is set up on. It would also be effective if here is any camera movement caused by the photographer when he releases the shutter.

For those of you who are suggesting the 1/focal length rule for minimum shutter speed: that is the rule of thumb for hand held shots, not tripod mounted shots. In this instance, the 1/100 sec shutter speed may have been too slow to stop subject motion. Yes 1/500 would have been better and is this case would have required either a much higher ISO or the addition of light (strobes or reflectors) to accomplish. With the Canon 7D MkII, I rarely shoot above ISO 800 unless forced to do so as the detail robbing noise gets too great for my taste. Yes ISOs like 1600 or 3200 are useable sometimes based on the end use of the shot and how much cropping there will be.

This is the type of shot where you will have to make compromises as the light is not optimal. No matter what you do there will be trade offs that the photographer will need to deal with on the spot. That is part of the joy of photography...there may not be one right way to do something!

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Jul 4, 2017 13:24:31   #
Rab-Eye Loc: Indiana
 
markngolf wrote:
Yes. I have same. Your shutter speed is too low. It must be a minimum of 1/focal length. Try same at 1/500. Also check your focus point. Best at precisely bird's eye.
Mark


+1

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Jul 4, 2017 15:31:03   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
will47 wrote:
I am very unhappy with the sharpness of this photo. f5.6, ISO500, 1/100, 2x extender on a Canon 70-200mm L series f2.8 lens, tripod was used. Because of the extender and loss of f stops I had to use at least ISO 500. This was the first time I have used the extender. The extender is a EF 2x III. Any suggestions to improve sharpness? Thanks. Camera is a Canon 7D Mark II.

You should try to shoot at a higher shutter speed and put the focus on the eye of the bird instead of behind it!

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Jul 4, 2017 16:22:39   #
Nalu Loc: Southern Arizona
 
There is a possibility that this combo is back focusing a bit. There are some pretty simple checks available on youtube. You definitely should test it.

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