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If they make us put electronics in luggage
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Jun 7, 2017 05:58:42   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
I realize this is still up in the air. I believe that such a policy will hurt business travel and businesses in general, and it has nothing to do with cameras. Business travelers carry company owned laptops that may have sensitive information on them, and there may be software on them that allows users to connect to their work in order to be productive while traveling. My company tell us to maintain control of their assets at all times. If businesses don't allow their assets to travel in luggage, they may also realize that travel isn't really necessary at all. The work that their employees may do overseas can often be done from home through the internet through an encrypted connection, up to and including video conferencing. So when they take their employees off of the planes, it will hurt airline business and the economies of countries where they send them to spend money on things like food and entertainment, car rentals, hotels etc.

As for me personally, I throw my cameras into the equation. The last time I went to Europe last year, I traveled with a Nikon D810 and 4 lenses, a Canon Superzoom compact for backup, a dedicated camcorder, a laptop, a tablet and a GPS device, all in the same bag I carried on the plane, an investment of thousands of dollars that I can't afford to lose. Would the airline replace these devices if stolen by baggage handlers?

And then there is the issue of the lithium batteries in most of these devices. Airline pilots have said they are opposed to having large numbers of lithium batteries in the cargo hold. A Jet Blue plane recently had a lithium battery fire in the cabin, and they were able to put it out. They would not have been able to put out the same fire in the cargo hold. There was a case of an exploding headset that made the news a few months ago. It happened in the cabin of the plane, and they were able to put the fire out. I've seen luggage literally thrown out of planes onto the ground, and I wonder if the shock of that might cause damage to equipment and their batteries resulting in a fire later.

We don't know what will happen with the proposal to ban electronics from the cabin, but if they go ahead with it, I won't feel as safe on a plane because of the battery issue, and I definitely won't take so much equipment with me the next time I travel overseas.

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Jun 7, 2017 06:16:52   #
sb Loc: Florida's East Coast
 
I agree this is a huge issue. The airlines claim limited liability for any checked baggage stolen or damaged - but they have always said that we should carry any valuable items with us in the cabin. I would consider checking my gear IF the airlines would take responsibility for it AND if they let me lock my case with a "real" lock, not the cheesy little TSA locks.

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Jun 7, 2017 06:48:17   #
bull drink water Loc: pontiac mi.
 
the airlines are using security to rip us off and lord it over us. one sales clerk attacked a customer because she refused to let them put her $20,000.00 violin in baggage. security and staff have used safety as a excuse to become heavy handed.

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Jun 7, 2017 06:53:27   #
pithydoug Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
 
therwol wrote:
I realize this is still up in the air. I believe that such a policy will hurt business travel and businesses in general, and it has nothing to do with cameras. Business travelers carry company owned laptops that may have sensitive information on them, and there may be software on them that allows users to connect to their work in order to be productive while traveling. My company tell us to maintain control of their assets at all times. If businesses don't allow their assets to travel in luggage, they may also realize that travel isn't really necessary at all. The work that their employees may do overseas can often be done from home through the internet through an encrypted connection, up to and including video conferencing. So when they take their employees off of the planes, it will hurt airline business and the economies of countries where they send them to spend money on things like food and entertainment, car rentals, hotels etc.

As for me personally, I throw my cameras into the equation. The last time I went to Europe last year, I traveled with a Nikon D810 and 4 lenses, a Canon Superzoom compact for backup, a dedicated camcorder, a laptop, a tablet and a GPS device, all in the same bag I carried on the plane, an investment of thousands of dollars that I can't afford to lose. Would the airline replace these devices if stolen by baggage handlers?

And then there is the issue of the lithium batteries in most of these devices. Airline pilots have said they are opposed to having large numbers of lithium batteries in the cargo hold. A Jet Blue plane recently had a lithium battery fire in the cabin, and they were able to put it out. They would not have been able to put out the same fire in the cargo hold. There was a case of an exploding headset that made the news a few months ago. It happened in the cabin of the plane, and they were able to put the fire out. I've seen luggage literally thrown out of planes onto the ground, and I wonder if the shock of that might cause damage to equipment and their batteries resulting in a fire later.

We don't know what will happen with the proposal to ban electronics from the cabin, but if they go ahead with it, I won't feel as safe on a plane because of the battery issue, and I definitely won't take so much equipment with me the next time I travel overseas.
I realize this is still up in the air. I believe ... (show quote)


All you need is one alleged lap top with enough explosives to take down a plane, which I think is the recent fear, and it won't matter where your gear is stored. Would the airlines prefer to pay for lost gear or N families law suits and lose a plane. We live in troubled times and safety is getting harder. And with Tweet Man pissing of even our allies, I'm even more concerned.

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Jun 7, 2017 06:55:43   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
I was discussing this with a friend yesterday. He knows a man who travels all over the world for business, and his laptop is like part of his body. When he's on a 12-hour flight, he's working with it. Putting it in checked luggage would prevent him from working, and it would risk damaging or losing his computer. Totally unacceptable. Maybe Business Class will offer another benefit - being able to work on business while flying.

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Jun 7, 2017 06:59:26   #
rjaywallace Loc: Wisconsin
 
therwol wrote:
I realize this is still up in the air. I believe that such a policy will hurt business travel and businesses in general, and it has nothing to do with cameras. Business travelers carry company owned laptops that may have sensitive information on them, and there may be software on them that allows users to connect to their work in order to be productive while traveling. My company tell us to maintain control of their assets at all times. If businesses don't allow their assets to travel in luggage, they may also realize that travel isn't really necessary at all. The work that their employees may do overseas can often be done from home through the internet through an encrypted connection, up to and including video conferencing. So when they take their employees off of the planes, it will hurt airline business and the economies of countries where they send them to spend money on things like food and entertainment, car rentals, hotels etc.

As for me personally, I throw my cameras into the equation. The last time I went to Europe last year, I traveled with a Nikon D810 and 4 lenses, a Canon Superzoom compact for backup, a dedicated camcorder, a laptop, a tablet and a GPS device, all in the same bag I carried on the plane, an investment of thousands of dollars that I can't afford to lose. Would the airline replace these devices if stolen by baggage handlers?

And then there is the issue of the lithium batteries in most of these devices. Airline pilots have said they are opposed to having large numbers of lithium batteries in the cargo hold. A Jet Blue plane recently had a lithium battery fire in the cabin, and they were able to put it out. They would not have been able to put out the same fire in the cargo hold. There was a case of an exploding headset that made the news a few months ago. It happened in the cabin of the plane, and they were able to put the fire out. I've seen luggage literally thrown out of planes onto the ground, and I wonder if the shock of that might cause damage to equipment and their batteries resulting in a fire later.

We don't know what will happen with the proposal to ban electronics from the cabin, but if they go ahead with it, I won't feel as safe on a plane because of the battery issue, and I definitely won't take so much equipment with me the next time I travel overseas.
I realize this is still up in the air. I believe ... (show quote)

Well stated. The airlines don't fully appreciate the fact that we can easily reduce our travel, both within our country and abroad. Unfortunately that plays right into the hands of terrorists who want to disrupt our lives, so it's a lose-lose situation for us. /Ralph

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Jun 7, 2017 07:23:30   #
pithydoug Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I was discussing this with a friend yesterday. He knows a man who travels all over the world for business, and his laptop is like part of his body. When he's on a 12-hour flight, he's working with it. Putting it in checked luggage would prevent him from working, and it would risk damaging or losing his computer. Totally unacceptable. Maybe Business Class will offer another benefit - being able to work on business while flying.


If it is a safety issue then prepare to be pissed off. Better to get there alive, even if you can't do some work. They also said long lines would stifle travel, it didn't. Bitch all we want, but none of this will effect whether one flies just what we do while flying.

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Jun 7, 2017 10:19:39   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
pithydoug wrote:
If it is a safety issue then prepare to be pissed off. Better to get there alive, even if you can't do some work. They also said long lines would stifle travel, it didn't. Bitch all we want, but none of this will effect whether one flies just what we do while flying.


Of course it's a safety issue, but tell me how they can tell of there are explosives in a laptop buried in a suitcase better than right in front of them in the open, and does it matter where the bomb goes off?

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Jun 7, 2017 13:21:17   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
therwol wrote:
Of course it's a safety issue, but tell me how they can tell of there are explosives in a laptop buried in a suitcase better than right in front of them in the open, and does it matter where the bomb goes off?


I just want to clarify something before this turns into another debate about safety and explosives. This topic has been here before. I was making a case that there could be significant economic impact to the airlines and travel destinations if employers won't allow their computers in checked luggage because of the sensitive material they may contain, and I can see that happening.

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Jun 7, 2017 14:33:48   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
Although the security measure demonstrated in this video is intended for carry-on, I suppose it could be adapted for check-in luggage to at least reduce the chance of individual items of value being pocketed by dishonest airport personnel; they would either have to steal the entire luggage content and risk getting caught, or take nothing at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ9O9HDhgjQ

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Jun 7, 2017 16:32:42   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
rook2c4 wrote:
Although the security measure demonstrated in this video is intended for carry-on, I suppose it could be adapted for check-in luggage to at least reduce the chance of individual items of value being pocketed by dishonest airport personnel; they would either have to steal the entire luggage content and risk getting caught, or take nothing at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ9O9HDhgjQ


I think that this would solve the problem of a casual theft from luggage (although a half second with a pen knife would free up that DSLR because it's secured by a simple cloth shoulder strap). One problem it might create is what they might do if they actually wanted to inspect this web of electronics closely. They have the tools to saw, drill or cut anything open and might leave quite a mess behind in your luggage, especially if they wanted to prove it to you.

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Jun 7, 2017 17:28:57   #
G Brown Loc: Sunny Bognor Regis West Sussex UK
 
I think the issue about travelling overseas for work and carrying laptop etc is going to decrease. Other than being a perk of the job there is now little reason for any employee to do this. Cost wise it makes no sense. Industry has reduces blue collar workers costs and now can do the same for white collar workers. Technology has made great inroads into 'management'.

We seem to be moving into an era when 'perception of threat' becomes the reason for doing things rather than the actuaries calculating the probability of danger. Why this is happening seems to reflect the plethora of so called 'management roles'.

5 people are now a 'pressure group' capable of swaying press coverage and lobbying government. Hence the number of 'unenforceable' laws that keep getting passed.The opinion of 'the man on the street' dictates policy.

As you suggest, the problem with this the constant conflict that sensible people get caught up in. Cars have sat nav but using a cell phone whilst driving is an offence. You cannot smoke in a vehicle with business insurance but you can if it insured only for 'commuting to and from work'. etc etc etc.

It seems 'communication' for the masses is creating an unintentional downside.

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Jun 7, 2017 22:59:03   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
therwol wrote:
I think that this would solve the problem of a casual theft from luggage (although a half second with a pen knife would free up that DSLR because it's secured by a simple cloth shoulder strap). One problem it might create is what they might do if they actually wanted to inspect this web of electronics closely. They have the tools to saw, drill or cut anything open and might leave quite a mess behind in your luggage, especially if they wanted to prove it to you.


True. But I think still better than not securing anything at all and making theft of your electronic devices as easy as a quick grab. Of course if the luggage inspectors are all working together as a gang of thieves, nothing will ever be theft-proof.

(Concerning the easy cutting of a shoulder strap, I guess one could instead use a heavy duty cable tie or wire through the strap eyelet on the camera.)

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Jun 7, 2017 23:55:31   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
rook2c4 wrote:
True. But I think still better than not securing anything at all and making theft of your electronic devices as easy as a quick grab. Of course if the luggage inspectors are all working together as a gang of thieves, nothing will ever be theft-proof.

(Concerning the easy cutting of a shoulder strap, I guess one could instead use a heavy duty cable tie or wire through the strap eyelet on the camera.)


Here is something I just thought of. We all know the screening process when we go to board a plane, taking the electronics out for x-ray and inspection and sometimes even taking our shoes off. When they start seeing all of this coming through the luggage, are they going to start opening all of it up to see what's inside? That would slow things down to a crawl and make it more difficult to get the luggage on the plane in time for the flight. Just a thought.

Again, this isn't policy yet, but they keep bringing it up, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it put into effect. I could talk politics, but that might take this discussion way off topic. Let's not go there.

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Jun 8, 2017 01:41:23   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
therwol wrote:
Here is something I just thought of. We all know the screening process when we go to board a plane, taking the electronics out for x-ray and inspection and sometimes even taking our shoes off. When they start seeing all of this coming through the luggage, are they going to start opening all of it up to see what's inside? That would slow things down to a crawl and make it more difficult to get the luggage on the plane in time for the flight. Just a thought.

Again, this isn't policy yet, but they keep bringing it up, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it put into effect. I could talk politics, but that might take this discussion way off topic. Let's not go there.
Here is something I just thought of. We all know ... (show quote)


Rather than delaying flights, what may happen is that travelers will be required to check in even earlier to give inspectors more time to analyze the x-ray scans of check in luggage.

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