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Do you think Mirrorless Cameras will replace dSLR Cameras?
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May 6, 2017 13:57:22   #
dhelix33 Loc: Live in Raleigh, NC - Grew up in Teaneck, NJ
 
I own Nikon 1 J1 and J5 mirrorless cameras. The cameras get limited use - such as when I capture images ‘on-the-fly’ at family gatherings or traveling - never used them for photography services provided to clients. I especially like these smaller designed Nikon mirrorless devices because they have the capability for superb image quality captures - and they are so light! In my humble opinion, I don’t believe mirrorless cameras are ‘the future’ of digital photography, as I have heard some people proclaim. I believe both the DSLR and Mirrorless camera designs are here to stay - and will continue to co-exist. I think this is similar to how laptops and desktops have continued to co-exist. There has been chatter of people wanting Nikon and Canon to design and release full frame mirrorless cameras – my question is - Why? I am quite sure the engineers at these shops can make a mirrorless full-frame camera by simply ditching the mirror, and in the case of Nikon retaining the F mount with compatibility to Nikkor lenses from the past half-century. What I don’t see a benefit of or redesigning a full frame DSLR to a Mirrorless design, other than providing a minuscule weight drop.

Have attached samples from my archive of Nikon 1 J1 and J5 images.

Cheers!
Greg

Nikon 1 J1 and Nikkor 10-30mm
Nikon 1 J1 and Nikkor 10-30mm...
(Download)

Nikon 1 J1 and Nikkor (full frame) 14-24mm
Nikon 1 J1 and Nikkor (full frame) 14-24mm...
(Download)

Nikon 1 J1 and Nikkor 10-30mm
Nikon 1 J1 and Nikkor 10-30mm...
(Download)

Nikon 1 J1 and Sigma (full frame) 12-24mm
Nikon 1 J1 and Sigma (full frame) 12-24mm...
(Download)

Nikon 1 J1 and Nikkor 10-30mm
Nikon 1 J1 and Nikkor 10-30mm...
(Download)

Nikon 1 J5 and Nikkor 10-30mm
Nikon 1 J5 and Nikkor 10-30mm...
(Download)

Nikon 1 J5 and Nikkor 10-30mm
Nikon 1 J5 and Nikkor 10-30mm...
(Download)

Nikon 1 J5 and Nikkor 10-30mm
Nikon 1 J5 and Nikkor 10-30mm...
(Download)

Nikon 1 J5 and Nikkor 10-30mm
Nikon 1 J5 and Nikkor 10-30mm...
(Download)

Reply
May 6, 2017 14:25:49   #
Reinaldokool Loc: San Rafael, CA
 
dhelix33 wrote:
I own Nikon 1 J1 and J5 mirrorless cameras. The cameras get limited use - such as when I capture images ‘on-the-fly’ at family gatherings or traveling - never used them for photography services provided to clients. I especially like these smaller designed Nikon mirrorless devices because they have the capability for superb image quality captures - and they are so light! In my humble opinion, I don’t believe mirrorless cameras are ‘the future’ of digital photography, as I have heard some people proclaim. I believe both the DSLR and Mirrorless camera designs are here to stay - and will continue to co-exist. I think this is similar to how laptops and desktops have continued to co-exist. There has been chatter of people wanting Nikon and Canon to design and release full frame mirrorless cameras – my question is - Why? I am quite sure the engineers at these shops can make a mirrorless full-frame camera by simply ditching the mirror, and in the case of Nikon retaining the F mount with compatibility to Nikkor lenses from the past half-century. What I don’t see a benefit of or redesigning a full frame DSLR to a Mirrorless design, other than providing a minuscule weight drop.

Have attached samples from my archive of Nikon 1 J1 and J5 images.

Cheers!
Greg
I own Nikon 1 J1 and J5 mirrorless cameras. The ca... (show quote)


I'm glad you like your Nikon MILCs. The Nikons and the Canons are both deficient for even high end amateur use--though the latest M5 Canon comes closer. First is the lack of a viewfinder. The J5 does have an EVF, but not a very good one. The M5 EVF is minimally acceptable. Second, they both settled on the "1 inch" sensor. Let's be clear, there is no 1 inch sensor. That is an industry-wide lie. The so-called 1 inch sensor is actual the same size as the sensor in the old vidicon tubes we used in old TV studio cameras. The sensor size is actually about 1/4 of an inch. Canon and Nikon and the others should be ashamed of themselves.

But if Canon and Nikon have dropped the ball on MILC, Fuji and Sony have run TDs with it. I shoot the aps-c sensor Sony a6300 and a6000, both of which make great images. Fuji's XT-2 is an amazingly capable camera. I think DSLRs have no advantage over these. For the 35mm contingent, the Sony large format cameras are great. It will take a long time, and I'm not sure that the current MILCs are the answer, but DSLRs will have a life limited by technology.

Reply
May 6, 2017 14:29:20   #
DeanS Loc: Capital City area of North Carolina
 
Some very nice shots here. Mirrorless in photography likely the wave of the future. New tech always overwhelms old tech. How many Royal or Remington typewriters have you seen in corp offices lately, or wood/coal burning steam locomotives? Jet fighters overwhelm any P51 still flyable. The examples are near infinite. I've been here a long time and believe me, I'll take my fuel-injected Corvette over my old first driver, a wornout '40 Forf two-door sedan everyday and twice on Sunday.😎😎😎

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May 6, 2017 14:30:58   #
terry44 Loc: Tuolumne County California, Maui Hawaii
 
I think there will always be ff dslr's maybe mirrorless will stick around I am actually thinking of checking the mirrorless world out BurkPhoto a regular here has sure given some great points as to why they are a decent choice. Remember that film cameras were of smaller size even though they have the mirror and pentaprism which I really prefer over electronic viewfinders, they were lighter though the longer zooms were heavy lenses I never carried less than 2 in Vietnam usually more along with a bandalero of film to get my recon shots , usually had a runner or helper also so that there was an endless supply of film and my photos were getting back to operations quickly. other than the mirror the photo still is taken mostly the same way as a dslr, and after these few years of using a dslr I think they are the way to go ,but a mirrorless along with a dslr ff
would not add the extra weight that cameras such as my D7100 would though interchanging lenses would be easier.
dhelix33 wrote:
I own Nikon 1 J1 and J5 mirrorless cameras. The cameras get limited use - such as when I capture images ‘on-the-fly’ at family gatherings or traveling - never used them for photography services provided to clients. I especially like these smaller designed Nikon mirrorless devices because they have the capability for superb image quality captures - and they are so light! In my humble opinion, I don’t believe mirrorless cameras are ‘the future’ of digital photography, as I have heard some people proclaim. I believe both the DSLR and Mirrorless camera designs are here to stay - and will continue to co-exist. I think this is similar to how laptops and desktops have continued to co-exist. There has been chatter of people wanting Nikon and Canon to design and release full frame mirrorless cameras – my question is - Why? I am quite sure the engineers at these shops can make a mirrorless full-frame camera by simply ditching the mirror, and in the case of Nikon retaining the F mount with compatibility to Nikkor lenses from the past half-century. What I don’t see a benefit of or redesigning a full frame DSLR to a Mirrorless design, other than providing a minuscule weight drop.

Have attached samples from my archive of Nikon 1 J1 and J5 images.

Cheers!
Greg
I own Nikon 1 J1 and J5 mirrorless cameras. The ca... (show quote)

Reply
May 6, 2017 14:35:39   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
Reinaldokool wrote:
I'm glad you like your Nikon MILCs. The Nikons and the Canons are both deficient for even high end amateur use--though the latest M5 Canon comes closer. First is the lack of a viewfinder. The J5 does have an EVF, but not a very good one. The M5 EVF is minimally acceptable. Second, they both settled on the "1 inch" sensor. Let's be clear, there is no 1 inch sensor. That is an industry-wide lie. The so-called 1 inch sensor is actual the same size as the sensor in the old vidicon tubes we used in old TV studio cameras. The sensor size is actually about 1/4 of an inch. Canon and Nikon and the others should be ashamed of themselves.

But if Canon and Nikon have dropped the ball on MILC, Fuji and Sony have run TDs with it. I shoot the aps-c sensor Sony a6300 and a6000, both of which make great images. Fuji's XT-2 is an amazingly capable camera. I think DSLRs have no advantage over these. For the 35mm contingent, the Sony large format cameras are great. It will take a long time, and I'm not sure that the current MILCs are the answer, but DSLRs will have a life limited by technology.
I'm glad you like your Nikon MILCs. The Nikons and... (show quote)


Perhaps you need to verify the accuracy of your information, which has multiple factual errors and is even inconsistent within this post of yours. Please do your research properly prior to opining. You are not a politician, I hope!

Reply
May 6, 2017 14:42:20   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
dhelix33 wrote:
I own Nikon 1 J1 and J5 mirrorless cameras. The cameras get limited use - such as when I capture images ‘on-the-fly’ at family gatherings or traveling - never used them for photography services provided to clients. I especially like these smaller designed Nikon mirrorless devices because they have the capability for superb image quality captures - and they are so light! In my humble opinion, I don’t believe mirrorless cameras are ‘the future’ of digital photography, as I have heard some people proclaim. I believe both the DSLR and Mirrorless camera designs are here to stay - and will continue to co-exist. I think this is similar to how laptops and desktops have continued to co-exist. There has been chatter of people wanting Nikon and Canon to design and release full frame mirrorless cameras – my question is - Why? I am quite sure the engineers at these shops can make a mirrorless full-frame camera by simply ditching the mirror, and in the case of Nikon retaining the F mount with compatibility to Nikkor lenses from the past half-century. What I don’t see a benefit of or redesigning a full frame DSLR to a Mirrorless design, other than providing a minuscule weight drop.

Have attached samples from my archive of Nikon 1 J1 and J5 images.

Cheers!
Greg
I own Nikon 1 J1 and J5 mirrorless cameras. The ca... (show quote)


Today's MILC cameras are in a very transient market and developing technology situation. I do expect mirrorless technology to eventually replace mechanical DSLR designs, but not with the current designs or current technology. DSLRs are superior for some situations and people, mirrorless are superior for other people and other situations. Market transitions of this type typically take decades to work through the system even when the new technology is proven to be superior, adoption trends lag by a purchasing cycle or two. Of course there are always evangelists for the new technology and die-hard change resistors on the other extreme.

Unfortunately there is a very large amount of misinformation being promulgated by people, and nowhere is better than UHH for that!

Reply
May 6, 2017 14:58:02   #
JPL
 
dhelix33 wrote:
I own Nikon 1 J1 and J5 mirrorless cameras. The cameras get limited use - such as when I capture images ‘on-the-fly’ at family gatherings or traveling - never used them for photography services provided to clients. I especially like these smaller designed Nikon mirrorless devices because they have the capability for superb image quality captures - and they are so light! In my humble opinion, I don’t believe mirrorless cameras are ‘the future’ of digital photography, as I have heard some people proclaim. I believe both the DSLR and Mirrorless camera designs are here to stay - and will continue to co-exist. I think this is similar to how laptops and desktops have continued to co-exist. There has been chatter of people wanting Nikon and Canon to design and release full frame mirrorless cameras – my question is - Why? I am quite sure the engineers at these shops can make a mirrorless full-frame camera by simply ditching the mirror, and in the case of Nikon retaining the F mount with compatibility to Nikkor lenses from the past half-century. What I don’t see a benefit of or redesigning a full frame DSLR to a Mirrorless design, other than providing a minuscule weight drop.

Have attached samples from my archive of Nikon 1 J1 and J5 images.

Cheers!
Greg
I own Nikon 1 J1 and J5 mirrorless cameras. The ca... (show quote)


Yes, I think mirrorless is the future. Why continue to build cameras with mirror systems when it will not be needed any more?
There are eight good reasons for the trend to mirrorless cameras.

They are smaller.
They are lighter.
They are much better for manual focusing (excluding the Nikon 1 system that is handicapped on purpose from Nikon but they will change that later on)
They are silent when you choose so or need so.
They are more reliable. (because of fewer mechanical parts)
They are less prone to mirror slap shake (because of no mirror)
They are capable of more fps (because no mirror needs to move)
They are cheaper in production because of fewer mechanical parts. That is an advantage for the camera industry as well as end customers.

Maybe there are more reasons for seeing the future through mirrorless, not dslr. But this is what comes to mind now.
Of course a bit more development is needed in mirrorless cameras until dslr will not be needed any more. Sony is almost there already and maybe more brands that I have no personal experience with. But I think it is only 1-2 generations (max. 5 years) until dslr cameras will have no advantages over mirrorless cameras and will not be needed any longer for any reason. Then mirrorless cameras will rule the market because they will be both cheaper and better than dslr cameras. Camera manufacturers that do not understand this will get out of business.

This is the future I see.

Reply
 
 
May 6, 2017 15:06:00   #
JPL
 
Peterff wrote:
Today's MILC cameras are in a very transient market and developing technology situation. I do expect mirrorless technology to eventually replace mechanical DSLR designs, but not with the current designs or current technology. DSLRs are superior for some situations and people, mirrorless are superior for other people and other situations. Market transitions of this type typically take decades to work through the system. Of course there are always evangelists for the new technology and die-hard change resistors on the other extreme.

Unfortunately there is a very large amount of misinformation being promulgated by people, and nowhere is better than UHH for that!
Today's MILC cameras are in a very transient marke... (show quote)


I think it will not take any decades to do the market transitions. Camera manufacturers will just ditch the mirror when they need it no longer, just as film was ditched in a few years when it was no more needed. This will only take a few years. Consumer choices will speed the process.

Reply
May 6, 2017 15:12:16   #
dhelix33 Loc: Live in Raleigh, NC - Grew up in Teaneck, NJ
 
Reinaldokool wrote:
I'm glad you like your Nikon MILCs. The Nikons and the Canons are both deficient for even high end amateur use--though the latest M5 Canon comes closer. First is the lack of a viewfinder. The J5 does have an EVF, but not a very good one. The M5 EVF is minimally acceptable. Second, they both settled on the "1 inch" sensor. Let's be clear, there is no 1 inch sensor. That is an industry-wide lie. The so-called 1 inch sensor is actual the same size as the sensor in the old vidicon tubes we used in old TV studio cameras. The sensor size is actually about 1/4 of an inch. Canon and Nikon and the others should be ashamed of themselves.

But if Canon and Nikon have dropped the ball on MILC, Fuji and Sony have run TDs with it. I shoot the aps-c sensor Sony a6300 and a6000, both of which make great images. Fuji's XT-2 is an amazingly capable camera. I think DSLRs have no advantage over these. For the 35mm contingent, the Sony large format cameras are great. It will take a long time, and I'm not sure that the current MILCs are the answer, but DSLRs will have a life limited by technology.
I'm glad you like your Nikon MILCs. The Nikons and... (show quote)


The most visible difference between full frame sensors and crop sensors is their field of view. In fact the term “crop” implies just exactly that. The smaller sensor’s field of view is a crop of the full frame. This means that if a full frame DSLR, like my Nikon Df and a crop-sensor DSLR like my Nikon D3200, take the same photo from the same distance with the same lens and point of view, the D3200 will capture a tighter field of view than the Df. On occasion, I may mount a full frame telephoto zoom lens on one of my APS-c sensor Nikons at a sporting event, to get that extra reach at long focal lengths with that 1.5x crop. While those Sony APS-c are superb cameras, I find your comment; "...I think DSLRs have no advantage over these..." a bit of a stretch, in terms of imaging capability and quality of any APS-c sensor camera compared to that of a Full Frame sensor DSLR camera. There are several advantages and disadvantages to each sensor size. In general, a full frame sensor can provide a broader dynamic range and better low light/high ISO performance yielding a higher quality image than a crop sensor. On the other side, crop sensor cameras offer advantages when it comes to cost. They can also be very effective for telephoto photography extra reach from the crop sensor multiplier as mentioned before.

Just sayin'
Greg


(Download)

Reply
May 6, 2017 15:22:07   #
CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!
 
Greg if you like your Nikon Mirrorless cameras you will LOVE Sony full-frame mirrorless cameras. As mentioned above, both Canon AND Nikon have dropped the ball when it came to developing and marketing mirrorless cameras competitive with the offerings from Sony, Fujifilm, Olympus, and Panasonic.

When you actually TRY a full-frame Sony mirrorless camera... and I mean try it with an OPEN mind... you'll quickly understand why so many people are excited about the technology and implementation, not to mention the image quality that is possible.

Try it in a store near you or rent one; you just might change your opinion.

Reply
May 6, 2017 15:26:28   #
mas24 Loc: Southern CA
 
To be honest, I don't have any knowledge of Nikon's mirrorless cameras. But, I have some knowledge of the other brands such as Sony, Fujifilm, Olympus, and Panasonic. And they appear to have a significant advantage in mirrorless technology. These brands have put all their marbles in one circle, and will never manufacture another DSLR with an Optical View Finder. Will DSLRs die soon? Not yet, but not impossible. It depends on the next generation of consumers. And for the moment, half are addicted to iPhones or Smartphones. And they are selling well.

Reply
 
 
May 6, 2017 15:33:31   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
JPL wrote:
I think it will not take any decades to do the market transitions. Camera manufacturers will just ditch the mirror when they need it no longer, just as film was ditched in a few years when it was no more needed. This will only take a few years. Consumer choices will speed the process.


We can perhaps agree to disagree on the time scales, my experience is that market changes work on a human scale, or a business cycle time scale, not a technology cycle time scale. Remember that this is a system level change, not just a camera body, and we have a whole new demographic of users coming into play with different needs and values. Also, it is by far from agreed yet that mirrorless systems outperform optical DSLRs. For some things yes and for somethings no. For some people yes, for some people no. I do not think we disagree on the points you made earlier, except for the time frame. At the front end, I think your 5 year estimate for the tech advantages to swing in favor of mirrorless is not unreasonable, but the market adoption - in my opinion - would probably take another five. You say five, I say ten, and we shall see, but the end result will likely be the same, merely a question of how soon.

You might find the attached recently published data of interest about ILC camera production and shipments, both units and revenue, and by geography. It definitely shows a trend towards non-reflex ILC cameras, but adoption of SLRs is still very strong in Europe and the Americas.

CIPA Digital Still Camera Data - Jan - Mar 2017
Attached file:
(Download)

Reply
May 6, 2017 15:47:47   #
dhelix33 Loc: Live in Raleigh, NC - Grew up in Teaneck, NJ
 
JPL wrote:
Yes, I think mirrorless is the future. Why continue to build cameras with mirror systems when it will not be needed any more?
There are eight good reasons for the trend to mirrorless cameras.

They are smaller.
They are lighter.
They are much better for manual focusing (excluding the Nikon 1 system that is handicapped on purpose from Nikon but they will change that later on)
They are silent when you choose so or need so.
They are more reliable. (because of fewer mechanical parts)
They are less prone to mirror slap shake (because of no mirror)
They are capable of more fps (because no mirror needs to move)
They are cheaper in production because of fewer mechanical parts. That is an advantage for the camera industry as well as end customers.

Maybe there are more reasons for seeing the future through mirrorless, not dslr. But this is what comes to mind now.
Of course a bit more development is needed in mirrorless cameras until dslr will not be needed any more. Sony is almost there already and maybe more brands that I have no personal experience with. But I think it is only 1-2 generations (max. 5 years) until dslr cameras will have no advantages over mirrorless cameras and will not be needed any longer for any reason. Then mirrorless cameras will rule the market because they will be both cheaper and better than dslr cameras. Camera manufacturers that do not understand this will get out of business.

This is the future I see.
Yes, I think mirrorless is the future. Why contin... (show quote)


It would take much to convince me that what I am seeing on a camera display screen, or an EVF (electronic view finder) in a mirrorless camera is exactly the WYSIWYG image I get through a OVF (optical view finder) in my DSLR cameras. Less convincing in respect to the image quality capability I have experienced with the mirrorless cameras I own. That being said, since the image in my DSLR optical view finders rely on the actual light passing through a camera rather than a digital representation, I will stick with my preferred single lens reflex digital camera design. Optical view finders provide me better clarity, better dynamic range and an instantaneous view of the actual subject being captured, as opposed to a potential signal delay with electronic view finder systems.

Reply
May 6, 2017 16:03:26   #
dhelix33 Loc: Live in Raleigh, NC - Grew up in Teaneck, NJ
 
CHOLLY wrote:
Greg if you like your Nikon Mirrorless cameras you will LOVE Sony full-frame mirrorless cameras. As mentioned above, both Canon AND Nikon have dropped the ball when it came to developing and marketing mirrorless cameras competitive with the offerings from Sony, Fujifilm, Olympus, and Panasonic.

When you actually TRY a full-frame Sony mirrorless camera... and I mean try it with an OPEN mind... you'll quickly understand why so many people are excited about the technology and implementation, not to mention the image quality that is possible.

Try it in a store near you or rent one; you just might change your opinion.
Greg if you like your Nikon Mirrorless cameras you... (show quote)


I have taken a test drive with the Sony Alpha a9 and thought it handled itself well as I took it through the paces - I do like the camera. Would consider purchasing one if I could mount the thousands of $$ in Nikkor glass I own on that Sony a9. Also, that OLED Electronic Viewfinder is a stumbling block for me - It is impossible to convince me that this EVF (electronic view finder) on this mirrorless full frame camera is exactly the WYSIWYG image I get through OVF (optical view finder) on my DSLR cameras with my naked eye.

Reply
May 6, 2017 16:03:53   #
JPL
 
Peterff wrote:
We can perhaps agree to disagree on the time scales, my experience is that market changes work on a human scale, or a business cycle time scale, not a technology cycle time scale. Remember that this is a system level change, not just a camera body, and we have a whole new demographic of users coming into play with different needs and values. Also, it is by far from agreed yet that mirrorless systems outperform optical DSLRs. For some things yes and for somethings no. For some people yes, for some people no. I do not think we disagree on the points you made earlier, except for the time frame. At the front end, I think your 5 year estimate for the tech advantages to swing in favor of mirrorless is not unreasonable, but the market adoption - in my opinion - would probably take another five. You say five, I say ten, and we shall see, but the end result will likely be the same, merely a question of how soon.

You might find the attached recently published data of interest about ILC camera production and shipments, both units and revenue, and by geography. It definitely shows a trend towards non-reflex ILC cameras, but adoption of SLRs is still very strong in Europe and the Americas.
We can perhaps agree to disagree on the time scale... (show quote)


Yes, I can agree that this is only a matter of time. I base my guess mostly on how fast Sony is hammering the market with new and improved cameras. In a short time period they have upgraded their line of full frame cameras with A7rII, A99II and now the A9 model. And with every new model they deliver cameras that are getting closer to dslr in usability and at very competitive prices. When they upgrade those cameras once more, probably within 2 years from now, they will catch up with dslr or surpass them in most or every aspect. Then the snowball will really get rolling. The only thing holding back Sony is the lens selection. I think they will need more time to improve the lens range than to surpass dslr camera bodies. That is why I think it will take up to 5 years to transfer to mirrorless. The lack of lenses for Sony cameras is buying Nikon and Canon some extra years to adopt to the mirrorless trend. I hope they use this time to do their job, else Sony will be the future dominating brand in the full frame and Aps-c markets.

Reply
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