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3 stops/// or Four
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Mar 26, 2017 10:45:36   #
Marionsho Loc: Kansas
 
How do they (the lens makes) determine how many stops the IS they have incorporated into their lens is good for?
Do they have lots of people take pictures, with and without, the aid of IS, then average out the results.
What if one, or more, of the photographers has the ability, like our own SS, to turn off his/her pacemaker, as to not allow his own heartbeat vibrations to interfere with his/her rocksteady grip?
In a recent post, one Hog claimed he could handhold 1/4 sec. exposures!
Do you think they throw out the best and the worst? As to not skew the results?
Inquiring minds want to know.

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Mar 26, 2017 11:13:59   #
moonhawk Loc: Land of Enchantment
 
Not sure how they test, but folks have claimed 5, 10 even 20 second handheld exposures with the Olympus E-M1 mkII. It has a claimed 6 1/2 stop advantage, when used with a dual IS capable OLY lens. Those extreme examples were done braced against a wall, or tree, or sitting with knees on elbows, I suppose. I think I got one fairly decent shot at about 1/5 sec at 600mm equivalent with the Oly 300 mm f/4 PRO.

The new nikons are getting better and better as well. It's a great day for photographers!

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Mar 26, 2017 11:14:08   #
Cdouthitt Loc: Traverse City, MI
 
Marionsho wrote:
How do they (the lens makes) determine how many stops the IS they have incorporated into their lens is good for?
Do they have lots of people take pictures, with and without, the aid of IS, then average out the results.
What if one, or more, of the photographers has the ability, like our own SS, to turn off his/her pacemaker, as to not allow his own heartbeat vibrations to interfere with his/her rocksteady grip?
In a recent post, one Hog claimed he could handhold 1/4 sec. exposures!
Do you think they throw out the best and the worst? As to not skew the results?
Inquiring minds want to know.
How do they (the lens makes) determine how many st... (show quote)


1/4 is easy with the right Body/lens combo. I've seen images taken with the Em1ii and 12-100 combo with upwards of 4 seconds (not 1/4s). Sure, you throw some away...but less than you may think.

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Mar 26, 2017 11:22:41   #
oldtigger Loc: Roanoke Virginia-USA
 
although you can indulge in all sorts of conditions and calculations i tend to believe
the claims are based on subjective judgment rather than measurement.

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Mar 26, 2017 11:25:46   #
lwiley Loc: Los Banos, CA, USA
 
From the point of a mechanical engineer, more than likely the manufacturers during the development phase and prototype phase of the lense development prior to production starting have done the calculations to predict the amount of light that the aperature would allow through for each f-stop (these calcs would have included allowances for the different wavelengths of light sources) then tested the available passage using special holding fixtures for the prototype lenses and then using precision light sources and calibrated light measurement instruments to measure the actual light passage to verify the calculated predictions. This testing and prototype refinement may take weeks, months and even years to get to the levels acceptable to the film and optical sensor standards.
Once this information is acceptable and production is begun the production lenses would be mounted in special quality control fixtures that verify that the lenses aperatures are correct.
As one of my photography instructors told us, how steady or unsteady your grip is has nothing to do with the amount of light going through the lense aperture for a given time period. The steadiness has to do with blur in the picture.

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Mar 26, 2017 11:30:34   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
lwiley wrote:
From the point of a mechanical engineer, more than likely the manufacturers during the development phase and prototype phase of the lense development prior to production starting have done the calculations to predict the amount of light that the aperature would allow through for each f-stop (these calcs would have included allowances for the different wavelengths of light sources) then tested the available passage using special holding fixtures for the prototype lenses and then using precision light sources and calibrated light measurement instruments to measure the actual light passage to verify the calculated predictions. This testing and prototype refinement may take weeks, months and even years to get to the levels acceptable to the film and optical sensor standards.
Once this information is acceptable and production is begun the production lenses would be mounted in special quality control fixtures that verify that the lenses aperatures are correct.
As one of my photography instructors told us, how steady or unsteady your grip is has nothing to do with the amount of light going through the lense aperture for a given time period. The steadiness has to do with blur in the picture.
From the point of a mechanical engineer, more than... (show quote)


Ahhh, but the question was not how they determine the amount of light the lens aperture allows thru, but how do they determine how many stops the IS can save by stabilizing the image for slower shutter speeds wasn't it?

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Mar 26, 2017 12:04:54   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
I don't know how the camera makers determine their claims, but I wouldn't blindly go by what they say. I did my own tests handholding VR lenses at different shutter speeds to see for myself how low of speeds I can get away with. Different photographers have different skill levels in steady handholding.

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Mar 26, 2017 12:39:51   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
Marionsho wrote:
How do they (the lens makes) determine how many stops the IS they have incorporated into their lens is good for?
Do they have lots of people take pictures, with and without, the aid of IS, then average out the results.
What if one, or more, of the photographers has the ability, like our own SS, to turn off his/her pacemaker, as to not allow his own heartbeat vibrations to interfere with his/her rocksteady grip?
In a recent post, one Hog claimed he could handhold 1/4 sec. exposures!
Do you think they throw out the best and the worst? As to not skew the results?
Inquiring minds want to know.
How do they (the lens makes) determine how many st... (show quote)

They do it just the way you mentioned. They have a number of hired folks that do it all the time and they take the average of stops measured!

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Mar 26, 2017 13:15:22   #
moonhawk Loc: Land of Enchantment
 
Intereingly, Olympus claims that their 6.5 f/stop increase is the best tha can be achieved due to the rotation of the earth.

Please don't ask me to explain that one.!

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Mar 27, 2017 06:12:06   #
cthahn
 
Holding a camera for 1/4 s ??????????? Depending on the subject, the distance and whether or not he/she is using some form of stabilization. Anyone who brags about being able to shoot at 1/4s is only fooling them self.

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Mar 27, 2017 06:36:32   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
Marionsho wrote:
How do they (the lens makes) determine how many stops the IS they have incorporated into their lens is good for?
Do they have lots of people take pictures, with and without, the aid of IS, then average out the results.
What if one, or more, of the photographers has the ability, like our own SS, to turn off his/her pacemaker, as to not allow his own heartbeat vibrations to interfere with his/her rocksteady grip?
In a recent post, one Hog claimed he could handhold 1/4 sec. exposures!
Do you think they throw out the best and the worst? As to not skew the results?
Inquiring minds want to know.
How do they (the lens makes) determine how many st... (show quote)

A lot depends on the photographer, I knew a lot of guys (before IS) could hold their camera's very steady, others could not. If the manufacture says that the IS of the lens is four stops, then for me that is a guideline and not a rule. Take your camera, focus on a product with lettering about 20 feet away (depending on the mm of the lens) and start shooting at slower and slower speeds, enlarge your results and see when the lettering gets fuzzy, that is YOUR IS. Get it. And do it with IS and without IS, just to see if there is a difference, don't trust the manufacture, learn to trust your skills.

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Mar 27, 2017 06:44:08   #
Cdouthitt Loc: Traverse City, MI
 
cthahn wrote:
Holding a camera for 1/4 s ??????????? Depending on the subject, the distance and whether or not he/she is using some form of stabilization. Anyone who brags about being able to shoot at 1/4s is only fooling them self.


No fool here. You just don't get it.
https://robinwong.blogspot.com/2017/01/why-do-you-need-image-stabilization.html?m=1

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Mar 27, 2017 07:42:40   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Marionsho wrote:
How do they (the lens makes) determine how many stops the IS they have incorporated into their lens is good for?


They do lots of testing - and they won't tell us how. Then they make a determination. At that point, it goes to Advertising, and they increase it by one.

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Mar 27, 2017 10:29:21   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
Marionsho wrote:
How do they (the lens makes) determine how many stops the IS they have incorporated into their lens is good for?
Do they have lots of people take pictures, with and without, the aid of IS, then average out the results.
What if one, or more, of the photographers has the ability, like our own SS, to turn off his/her pacemaker, as to not allow his own heartbeat vibrations to interfere with his/her rocksteady grip?
In a recent post, one Hog claimed he could handhold 1/4 sec. exposures!
Do you think they throw out the best and the worst? As to not skew the results?
Inquiring minds want to know.
How do they (the lens makes) determine how many st... (show quote)

It is an approximation only. I'm not sure how they test to specify the amount, but most people don't tend to get the whole four stops. It frankly depends on your stance, your breathing and how you hold your camera. I've developed a rigid system of stances and also regularly use walls, posts and anything else for rigidity. As a result with IS I can sometimes capture good results as slow as 1 second. Some people, on the other hand, may not be able to get more than 2 stops from IS.

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Mar 27, 2017 11:21:46   #
moonhawk Loc: Land of Enchantment
 
Every little bit helps, when you don't use a tripod. One of the beautiful things for me is how many times I don't need to carry one with the great advances in technology we enjoy.

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