SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Yes folks, now that whether a photo tells a story or not is fresh in your minds, lets examine WHAT makes an image strong or weak.
It's time for us to have another good discussion on Composition. And the subject to dissect is..., well..., SUBJECT!!!
I'll start by saying that as per my thinking, about 1/2 of the images I see here don't even HAVE a subject, let alone a story.
Also. I'm by no means an authority on any of this but I will present this and anybody that feels they have some expertise here can help move the discussion along.
Lets also keep in mind that a subject is a somewhat fundamental building block in any image.
BUT I will mention that I feel an good image will have a VERY strong subject or a VERY strong composition or both or one or the other. A weak image may have none at all.
So the idea is to be able to recognize in our own images, or in others what a strong subject and/or composition even looks like.
Once we can reliably recognize that, we can begin to critique our own images for strength and take better images.
Anybody can post an image and add what they feel is strong about it and feel free to chime in as to your own opinions.
I'm also relying on those more experienced here to help out and lend their own spin on this as it's how we will all learn. It's a good opportunity for those that are not as advanced to ask questions and learn to strengthen their own work!
I'll post three images in my next post to get the ball rolling. Lets have a good educational time here!!!
Please wait a few minutes for me to put my pics up in the next post before you respond, so it doesn't get moved!! Thanks
SS

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Here are 3 images with what I feel are varying degrees of strength. One of the images is very typical of what we see a lot of. It's a pretty picture but WHAT is the subject? If we have to be guessing what the subject even is, or asking, OR have to be told, it's NOT a very strong image.
So lets start to determine WHAT makes a GOOD or a STRONG image.
OK boys and girls..., have at it!!!

Also I'll be gone till the early afternoon today so may not get a chance to be back. I'll try and check in. Feel free to roll it along without me!!! LoL
SS

Strong subject

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Strong composition and subject

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I think this is a very pretty pic but WHAT is the subject?

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rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA

Aesthetic considerations in photography are essentially the same as those for painting. As such, a "subject" need not necessarily be defined by a tangible object within the composition, but can instead be represented by a general concept or relationship. You will find this especially prevalent in abstract painting, but not exclusively.

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Very well said. An example is Street Photography where the subject is rarely an object shown in the image, but is actually the intangible relationships between the objects shown. Those objects are visual symbols.

Leicaflex Loc: Cymru

To clarify: " Does Your Photograph Need a Subject???" Are we talking here about the 'subject within the photograph'
or a 'subject title for the photograph'. A strong title, descriptive or humorous, can help the photograph along.

For instance, your first photograph. "Strong Subject". Yes it is, as is the composition, exposure, definition and so on.
A good title may assist the photograph along.

Your second photograph: "Strong composition and subject" Yes indeed and one would expect one of the seven wonders of
the world to have great impact, provided the composition is good, exposure, definition Etc, Etc.

Now we are getting down to it. Your third photograph: "I think this is a very pretty pic but WHAT is the subject?"
What indeed is the subject? Here, a title would assist the viewer. Again all the photographic requirements have been
met. So is the subject the flowers? The mountains? or even the clouds add their own interest?

My conclusion is that a photograph, once all the photographic requirements have been met, exposure and so on.
A strong subject, Your first two photographs, can add impact to an image, does it need a title to assist? maybe so
or maybe not, after all most people would know of the Great Wall of China, even if they have not physically seen for
themselves, but a title could assist the viewer, indicating what part of the wall and its location.

When a photograph is posted on this forum, you do not see the photograph first, you see the subject title.
This may draw you to click on it and view, or it could deter you and you move on.
A strong subject and a Strong or humorous title can assist each other with the photograph.
That is my take on it.

neilds37 Loc: Port Angeles, WA

One thing I remember the point of, but not the source.

Turn your back on the photo and walk away, six to ten feet. Turn and look...the subject is what your eye locks on, on first sighting. If there is no subject the eye can only wander.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

How does abstract fit into your point of view?

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Wanda Krack Loc: Tennessee, USA

#1 is a weak image because it has two subjects, both the bird and the wood with holes, both attract the eye. Movement within the frame is nice, starting at the bottom and ending up with the beautiful bird.
#2 is the strongest of the three due to movement within the frame, subject obvious, leading lines and colors.
#3 is a lovely landscape, with a foreground, mid and background, each quite colorful and compelling.

I find all three of these images just a tad over-saturated (could be my monitor).

There are many types of images we shoot. A strong subject is not necessary for the enjoyment of a picture. Sometimes it's relaxing to enjoy a picture with no subject. Your third image I could place myself right into the picture.

DRG777 Loc: Metro Detroit

#1 and #2 are the stronger images, yes. Most of the time, I am desiring to build a "good" composition into my shots (mostly landscapes). However, when I am visiting a place, I will sometimes just take a shot like #3 on purpose, as a memory of what it was like, even if it is not the most compelling image.

oldtigger Loc: Roanoke Virginia-USA

I tend to find photographs falling into 1 of 3 groups:
1) The "Look mom, see what I did." group which require no title, subject, style or composition.
2) The " I want you to see this." which forces the viewer to react in a predetermined
manner and requires a strong subject, title, or setting to guide the viewer
3) The "Allow me to share this with you." group requiring nothing and giving
the viewer free reign to explore and develop their own story line.
Group 1 belongs in the peanut gallery,
group 2 may well have the strongest impact, but
group 3 yields the images which stay with us because they come into being as we view them.

boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

You are asking an unanswerable question, the answer to which is--It depends. Thats not really an answer because the answer mat be different for each viewer of the picture. The composition "rules" are not to be obeyed in every case. Blurry-out of focus-poorly framd photos have made the front page of the NY Times. Basically you are asking -What is the purpose of any art form? Sometimes the subject is-There is no subject. I know that all this makes no sense whatsoever, but some questions have no answers.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

I love to capture moods with light and weather and tell stories that encompass a wider view; most of my landscapes are not designed to cause an immediate WOW (they require a bit of contemplation...and viewing larger than 800 px wide ). Most do not have strongly defined subjects.

I agree with much of what was said earlier in this thread: "It depends," "different for each viewer," subject can be defined by "general concept." I was very interested in oldtigger's three groups definition and I identify most with "allow me to share this with you."

I do photography for myself, and if someone else enjoys my vision, that is a great gift indeed.

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Exception: 14,000' volcanoes are hard to ignore as subjects :)

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neilds37 Loc: Port Angeles, WA

Linda, #1 and #2 would benefit greatly with just a single tiny bird, soaring overhead in #1 and resting on the water in #2, IMO. #3 is a total winner as-is and should take a ribbon in any competition.

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Gene, thanks for bring in that up.
In one of my earlier composition installments we talked about graphic elements. Not to confuse Graphic with Explicit though they could be similar.
We had determined that a strong element could indeed be a strong image. A lot of abstract can fall into having graphic qualities.
Perhaps you can show us examples of abstract concepts that are strong images. I know you have a pretty extensive portfolio. I do have one I could post but I'll let others post their interpretations of abstracts they feel work as a subject and we can talk about those.
Thanks Gene.
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