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Recommendation for a computer for photo use
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Jan 11, 2017 19:23:00   #
whitewolfowner
 
Architect1776 wrote:
They are not facts just stories.
Again if it were so terrible why would the PC be the worldwide industry standard. I work with Architects all around the world and they are all PC based.



That's because all their software is PC based; simple reasoning here.

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Jan 11, 2017 19:25:04   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
a6k wrote:
If you believe the built-in protection in Win10 makes supplemental protection superfluous you are saying the opposite of the vast majority of professional reviewers, many of whom use the standard Win10 protection as the bottom of their acceptable set of results when testing. If that argument fails, then the contention that there is zero evidence that Macs are better in that regard must also fail. Use Windows if you like it, but please don't lead the unwary into the weeds.


I am by no means suggesting that Windows native virus protection is solely adequate protection, and if you reread my statement, you'll see that in fact, I said it was built-in, nothing more. Personally, I use other malware and bot protection, but I do not pay a significant amount for those tools compared to the cost difference between Macs and PCs. Your contention that somehow your interpretation of that statement makes the conclusions I note in my 2nd paragraph invalid is a non sequitor. If you wish to refute any of those facts concerning price vs performance, upgradability, the percentage of commercial users of PCs, etc., then by all means, post some real evidence.

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Jan 11, 2017 19:28:25   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
whitewolfowner wrote:
That's because all their software is PC based; simple reasoning here.


And why is that if it is so miserable and is down more than up.
In the market place something that fails most of the time would quickly quit selling and something better would replace it.
That is how the real world works now days. It does not revolve around snooty Mac users. Yes Mac is a good product generally. I bought 2 I pads they each failed in a week. I bought a PC based pad and it is 3 years old and still going strong. I also can hook external drives to it, flash drives and it is so much more capable with external devices.

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Jan 11, 2017 19:28:37   #
whitewolfowner
 
TriX wrote:
I am by no means suggesting that Windows native virus protection is solely adequate protection, and if you reread my statement, you'll see that in fact, I said it was built-in, nothing more. Personally, I use other malware and bot protection, but I do not pay a significant amount for those tools compared to the cost difference between Macs and PCs. Your contention that somehow your interpretation of that statement makes the conclusions I note in my 2nd paragraph invalid is a non sequitor. If you wish to refute any of those facts concerning price vs performance, upgradability, the percentage of commercial users of PCs, etc., then by all means, post some real evidence.
I am by no means suggesting that Windows native vi... (show quote)



My son had a PC when he was in business school in college. He had to pay $7 a year for security protection. Grant it he bought a good program, but his grades and future depended on it. Add that up over, 10, 20, 30 years.

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Jan 11, 2017 19:35:20   #
whitewolfowner
 
Architect1776 wrote:
And why is that if it is so miserable and is down more than up.
In the market place something that fails most of the time would quickly quit selling and something better would replace it.
That is how the real world works now days. It does not revolve around snooty Mac users. Yes Mac is a good product generally. I bought 2 I pads they each failed in a week. I bought a PC based pad and it is 3 years old and still going strong. I also can hook external drives to it, flash drives and it is so much more capable with external devices.
And why is that if it is so miserable and is down ... (show quote)



I have had mac's ever since I got into computing. I am an electronic engineering technician by trade. I now several other engineers from many industries country wide. Yes, their company may force them to use PC's because the bean counters in the office are PC guys, do the buying and know no better. But go into their homes and you will a mac. There are many reasons for this and seeing that engineers prefer mac's says a whole lot about it. I'm not writing a book to explain why, but take my word for it; getting deep down into the hardware, the mac is the one to have. With that said, before you attack me with it, I am well aware that the two computers are getting more and more alike; you can even use a mac as a PC if you want to.

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Jan 11, 2017 19:36:27   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
whitewolfowner wrote:
My son had a PC when he was in business school in college. He had to pay $7 a year for security protection. Grant it he bought a good program, but his grades and future depended on it. Add that up over, 10, 20, 30 years.


And I am sure the Chinese, N and S Koreans and your lost uncle from Nigeria can easily get into your Mac. But keep deluding yourself and patting yourself on the back that you are better than us lowly plebes that are groveling at your feet with our buggy PC systems. Democrats had the same attitude. Republicans went PC and did not get hacked as the Dems did.

http://www.postandcourier.com/business/mac-users-beware-ransomware-could-be-on-your-computer/article_22ee7b5e-c5b2-50bf-bcc7-5906a200c73f.html

https://lifars.com/2016/09/russian-dnc-hackers-accused-developing-mac-os-x-trojan/

http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2016/09/27/suspected_russian_dnc_hackers_brew_mac_trojan/

http://www.infoworld.com/article/3124803/malware/new-mac-trojan-uses-the-russian-space-program-as-a-front.html

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Jan 11, 2017 19:42:06   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
whitewolfowner wrote:
Until you run into a security issue or the drive with your operating system crashes. Add up the yearly cost of your security software you pay for to keep that PC safe (still susceptible to problems, much more than a mac) over the years, plus what it costs you for all the software that comes with a mac and all of a sudden, a mac is a bargain. Now add in all the crashes you get with a PC and what it cost most people to have it up and running again.


I haven't. I will never understand why Mac-fanboys are so defensive, to the point of embarrassing themselves making absurd statements about Windows machines. My system doesn't crash, going on 5 yrs now, and I use a couple of completely free antivirus programs - Adaware and Avast! free version. I don't have a use for most of the bloatware that comes with a Mac, and I do use another free application, SyncBack Lite - to schedule my backups to two different external drives. I have been a PC user since 1983, and a Mac user since 2002. So, unlike yourself, I have a lot of experience with both, and I used to teach video editing on both (and I do prefer video editing on the Mac, BTW). I never feel I have to trash the Mac platform to make the PC platform look good. In fact, my position is that for most users, they are functionally comparable, with the Mac being more expensive and with limited options, a "feature" of a closed architecture, and the PC is 100% configurable - a feature of a totally open system. If someone is doing color critical work then the PC, which supports wide gamut AdobeRGB and in Photoshop use a 30 bit color pipeline.

There is no need to misrepresent either platform - the Mac is NOT the best thing since sliced bread, and the PC is not a disaster. I use them both, and neither live up to the way you have chosen to characterize them.

Maybe, if you could, post a few images that you have created on your Mac, and make a case for why it's soooo much better than a pc. I doubt you or anyone else will be able to tell the difference. And for your own edification, check out a PC - I think you'll be amazed at how things really are on the dark side. I know I am not going to change your mind, so this is entirely not for your benefit, but for the others that might read this and come away thinking that somehow everything you said is true. I'm just trying to provide an unbiased, fact-based opinion. Now if you live in a fact-free world, I guess that is ok, but for someone about to spend some serious coin on a computer, I think the balanced opinion might be a little more fair.

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Jan 11, 2017 19:42:32   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
whitewolfowner wrote:
I am and you just proved my point, thanks. Haven't met a windows machine yet that doesn't get in trouble without buying a good security software. Most PC users have their machines down as much as or more than they are up. Yeah, all the outer stuff out there in the Internet is PC based; that the main reason why everyone keeps getting hacked. Again, thanks for proving my point.


Again with respect, hearsay. I have been building and using PCs since IBM released the specificationin the early 80s. Have I experienced unstable machines? Yes, but not in the last 15-20 years (back in the pre-XP, Windows for workgroups days). Have I ever acquired a virus? Once, in 30+years, and it was easily addressed. Why is that? Because I employ safe computing practices and everything that entails from firewalls to tools to avoiding unknown sites/emails/attachments, to maintaining snapshots and restore points to backup and DR, etc. I currently administer 6PCs, an IMac and 2 IPads, and the only unstable machines are the IPads which routinely crash. The 3 Windows 10 and 3 XP machines are rock solid. The IMac doesn't crash and I like the display and styling, but is dog slow (because of limited CPU and memory resources) and I haven't upgraded it because of the upgrade limitations, cost for those, and the difficulty of accessing the internals.

Let's just be balanced here. PCs are not all bad and Macs are all good or vice versa. Can't we just agree that both are reasonable platforms for their intended use without incorrectly demonizing either? This is like the Canon vs Nikon argument, and equally fruitless.

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Jan 11, 2017 19:43:26   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Gene51 wrote:
I haven't. I will never understand why Mac-fanboys are so defensive, to the point of embarrassing themselves making absurd statements about Windows machines. My system doesn't crash, going on 5 yrs now, and I use a couple of completely free antivirus programs - Adaware and Avast! free version. I don't have a use for most of the bloatware that comes with a Mac, and I do use another free application, SyncBack Lite - to schedule my backups to two different external drives. I have been a PC user since 1983, and a Mac user since 2002. So, unlike yourself, I have a lot of experience with both, and I used to teach video editing on both (and I do prefer video editing on the Mac, BTW). I never feel I have to trash the Mac platform to make the PC platform look good. In fact, my position is that for most users, they are functionally comparable, with the Mac being more expensive and with limited options, a "feature" of a closed architecture, and the PC is 100% configurable - a feature of a totally open system. If someone is doing color critical work then the PC, which supports wide gamut AdobeRGB and in Photoshop use a 30 bit color pipeline.

There is no need to misrepresent either platform - the Mac is NOT the best thing since sliced bread, and the PC is not a disaster. I use them both, and neither live up to the way you have chosen to characterize them.

Maybe, if you could, post a few images that you have created on your Mac, and make a case for why it's soooo much better than a pc. I doubt you or anyone else will be able to tell the difference. And for your own edification, check out a PC - I think you'll be amazed at how things really are on the dark side. I know I am not going to change your mind, so this is entirely not for your benefit, but for the others that might read this and come away thinking that somehow everything you said is true. I'm just trying to provide an unbiased, fact-based opinion. Now if you live in a fact-free world, I guess that is ok, but for someone about to spend some serious coin on a computer, I think the balanced opinion might be a little more fair.
I haven't. I will never understand why Mac-fanboys... (show quote)



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Jan 11, 2017 19:49:53   #
whitewolfowner
 
Architect1776 wrote:
And I am sure the Chinese, N and S Koreans and your lost uncle from Nigeria can easily get into your Mac. But keep deluding yourself and patting yourself on the back that you are better than us lowly plebes that are groveling at your feet with our buggy PC systems. Democrats had the same attitude. Republicans went PC and did not get hacked as the Dems did.

http://www.postandcourier.com/business/mac-users-beware-ransomware-could-be-on-your-computer/article_22ee7b5e-c5b2-50bf-bcc7-5906a200c73f.html

https://lifars.com/2016/09/russian-dnc-hackers-accused-developing-mac-os-x-trojan/

http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2016/09/27/suspected_russian_dnc_hackers_brew_mac_trojan/

http://www.infoworld.com/article/3124803/malware/new-mac-trojan-uses-the-russian-space-program-as-a-front.html
And I am sure the Chinese, N and S Koreans and you... (show quote)




They also took precautions above and beyond what the libs did. I am not putting anyone down for using a PC. Its a lot like Chevy vs Ford; Nikon vs Canon. You use what you are used to. If new into the deal of computing and wanting to know what to get and why, I say what I know. Sorry if you feel like I buried you, not at all my intention; I'm just stating and defending what I know; it's called a debate and it's good to do because those that are unsure which way to go can see the pros and cons mentioned and brought up. It's not a pissing contest, so don't take it as such. Our debating back and forth brings up points for others to see and consider; then are more informed to make a decision. Many have accused me of acting like I am a know it all and shove it down their throat; it is anything but that; I'm presenting my case and you should too. It's not who's right and who's wrong; it's just presenting what you know or want to present and I do the same. Sometimes the one that knows more about a subject appears to be over powering to the less knowledgeable person, but, you know what, that's reality. Nothing personal meant by it, but just good debating.

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Jan 11, 2017 19:53:13   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
whitewolfowner wrote:
They also took precautions above and beyond what the libs did. I am not putting anyone down for using a PC. Its a lot like Chevy vs Ford; Nikon vs Canon. You use what you are used to. If new into the deal of computing and wanting to know what to get and why, I say what I know. Sorry if you feel like I buried you, not at all my intention; I'm just stating and defending what I know; it's called a debate and it's good to do because those that are unsure which way to go can see the pros and cons mentioned and brought up. It's not a pissing contest, so don't take it as such. Our debating back and forth brings up points for others to see and consider; then are more informed to make a decision. Many have accused me of acting like I am a know it all and shove it down their throat; it is anything but that; I'm presenting my case and you should too. It's not who's right and who's wrong; it's just presenting what you know or want to present and I do the same. Sometimes the one that knows more about a subject appears to be over powering to the less knowledgeable person, but, you know what, that's reality. Nothing personal meant by it, but just good debating.
They also took precautions above and beyond what t... (show quote)


Debate is fine. But outlandish and false statements must be called out.
Same happens with a lot of false lies frequently stated in this forum regarding Canon. Some are so outlandish it makes me cringe but they still come out over and over even though they are completely in error and false.

Reply
 
 
Jan 11, 2017 19:56:20   #
whitewolfowner
 
Gene51 wrote:
I haven't. I will never understand why Mac-fanboys are so defensive, to the point of embarrassing themselves making absurd statements about Windows machines. My system doesn't crash, going on 5 yrs now, and I use a couple of completely free antivirus programs - Adaware and Avast! free version. I don't have a use for most of the bloatware that comes with a Mac, and I do use another free application, SyncBack Lite - to schedule my backups to two different external drives. I have been a PC user since 1983, and a Mac user since 2002. So, unlike yourself, I have a lot of experience with both, and I used to teach video editing on both (and I do prefer video editing on the Mac, BTW). I never feel I have to trash the Mac platform to make the PC platform look good. In fact, my position is that for most users, they are functionally comparable, with the Mac being more expensive and with limited options, a "feature" of a closed architecture, and the PC is 100% configurable - a feature of a totally open system. If someone is doing color critical work then the PC, which supports wide gamut AdobeRGB and in Photoshop use a 30 bit color pipeline.

There is no need to misrepresent either platform - the Mac is NOT the best thing since sliced bread, and the PC is not a disaster. I use them both, and neither live up to the way you have chosen to characterize them.

Maybe, if you could, post a few images that you have created on your Mac, and make a case for why it's soooo much better than a pc. I doubt you or anyone else will be able to tell the difference. And for your own edification, check out a PC - I think you'll be amazed at how things really are on the dark side. I know I am not going to change your mind, so this is entirely not for your benefit, but for the others that might read this and come away thinking that somehow everything you said is true. I'm just trying to provide an unbiased, fact-based opinion. Now if you live in a fact-free world, I guess that is ok, but for someone about to spend some serious coin on a computer, I think the balanced opinion might be a little more fair.
I haven't. I will never understand why Mac-fanboys... (show quote)




We are talking two different things here; it's apples and oranges. To debate or discuss we have to be on the same flight. If you want to talk about architecture, we can but for security and usage of software without problems, the mac is the clear winner. Have to have a ground here to discuss. Let me know where you want to go with it.

Reply
Jan 11, 2017 19:57:20   #
whitewolfowner
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Debate is fine. But outlandish and false statements must be called out.
Same happens with a lot of false lies frequently stated in this forum regarding Canon. Some are so outlandish it makes me cringe but they still come out over and over even though they are completely in error and false.




OK, what false statement did I make? Enlighten me, I'm a big boy and even have big boy pants. By the way, I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.

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Jan 11, 2017 19:59:40   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
whitewolfowner wrote:
OK, what false statement did I make?


Piece of cake.

"Most PC users have their machines down as much as or more than they are up."

Got it?

Reply
Jan 11, 2017 20:28:43   #
MrBob Loc: lookout Mtn. NE Alabama
 
jaymatt wrote:
Mac


Jaymatt is entirely correct... considering what folks pay for bodies and lenses around here, getting the 27" Mac loaded out is still a bargain. Sure, some folks will return to windows, but I am sure they are in the very small minority. Sleep on the best mattress you can afford, wear the most comfortable shoes you can afford, and process on a machine you will learn to love. Apple company policy and price be damned !!!

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