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Just can't seem to get everything in focus :(
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Jun 24, 2016 00:02:06   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
Longshadow wrote:
Then we better get the dictionary and the rest of the world corrected:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/bokeh?s=t

Harsh might be bad (not pleasing), smooth may be good (pleasing), as well as color complementary, too busy, etc., but it depends on the viewer, as good (pleasing) and bad (not pleasing) are subjective to the individual viewer.

The dictionary says exactly the same as what I've said! Read it:

a Japanese term for the subjective aesthetic quality
of out-of-focus areas of a photographic image

Examples

The bokeh, or quality of the blurred image in the photograph,
was described and discussed.

It uses "quality" twice to describe it, and does not say it is an out of focus area as you did.

DOF, or inversely the out of focus area, is roughly the same with ever lens when the aperture and magnification are the same. Bokeh on the other hand can vary wildly from one lens to the next.

robertjerl wrote:
That blurred background is called "bokeh" by most, some will dispute it.

See the dictionary cite! The blurred background is not called bokeh by anyone who understands what the word means. You can have more blur or less blur, but you can't have more bokeh or less bokeh. If there is any amount of blurred area, then there is bokeh. It's binary, on or off. Granted than many are confused, but lets try to keep it straight.

"bokeh is the quality of out-of-focus or “blurry” parts
of the image
rendered by a camera lens – it is NOT the
blur itself or the amount of blur in the foreground or the
background of a subject."
https://photographylife.com/what-is-bokeh

"is the aesthetic quality of the blur"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokeh

"bokeh is the pleasing or aesthetic quality of out-of-focus blur"
http://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/article/h0ndz86v/bokeh-for-beginners.html

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Jun 24, 2016 00:18:44   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Apaflo wrote:
See the dictionary cite! The blurred background is not called bokeh by anyone who understands what the word means. You can have more blur or less blur, but you can't have more bokeh or less bokeh. If there is any amount of blurred area, then there is bokeh. It's binary, on or off. Granted than many are confused, but lets try to keep it straight.

"bokeh is the quality of out-of-focus or “blurry” parts
of the image
rendered by a camera lens – it is NOT the
blur itself or the amount of blur in the foreground or the
background of a subject."
https://photographylife.com/what-is-bokeh

"is the aesthetic quality of the blur"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokeh

"bokeh is the pleasing or aesthetic quality of out-of-focus blur"
http://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/article/h0ndz86v/bokeh-for-beginners.html
See the dictionary cite! The blurred background i... (show quote)


Calm down, it isn't worth a stroke.
As we said in Nam "It don't mean nothing!"
You are arguing for the technical original meaning and most people are now using it to mean the being out of focus or the area out of focus, not the aesthetic quality perceived. Language grows and meanings change or get piled on top of each other over time. The present trend will probably result in future dictionaries giving both meanings.
I had to deal with that a lot teaching history. A word's older meaning would be used in the book and the students got confused. Part of my job in my lessons was to inform them of what the word meant at the time as opposed to today.
Think how many words now mean something different than when we were kids.

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Jun 24, 2016 01:04:48   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
robertjerl wrote:
Calm down, it isn't worth a stroke.
As we said in Nam "It don't mean nothing!"
You are arguing for the technical original meaning and most people are now using it to mean the being out of focus or the area out of focus, not the aesthetic quality perceived. Language grows and meanings change or get piled on top of each other over time. The present trend will probably result in future dictionaries giving both meanings.
I had to deal with that a lot teaching history. A word's older meaning would be used in the book and the students got confused. Part of my job in my lessons was to inform them of what the word meant at the time as opposed to today.
Think how many words now mean something different than when we were kids.
Calm down, it isn't worth a stroke. br As we sai... (show quote)

Slow down Robert. (This ain't 'Nam, and for 55,000 American lives, not to mention a million Vietnamese, "it" did have meaning.)

Look at what you are saying. It's wrong. Simple as that. No matter how you excuse it, the word doesn't mean what you said. The dictionaries (every single one of them) say otherwise. Every decent source on the Internet says otherwise. That's because it is otherwise.

You can't find even a single authoritative reliable source that will agree with you.

Most people are actually using it correctly. It is not uncommon for new people to make the mistake that you are, and it is also not really rare for experienced people too (particularly here on UHH). It is still a mistake. The word has always had just one meaning, and that has not changed. It's just that yes it is a technical point, and many people are not technical. It's hard to get across that using the wrong word or the right word in the wrong way causes others to have difficulty understanding what is being said.

Those of us with a few decades of experience have a duty to help others get it right.

It's not really about photography, it's about effective written communications.

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Jun 24, 2016 01:47:00   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Apaflo wrote:
Slow down Robert. (This ain't 'Nam, and for 55,000 American lives, not to mention a million Vietnamese, "it" did have meaning.)
That is beside the point, it was part of the attitude and graveyard humor for GIs to get through things without going crazy. It basically meant calm down, keep going, we will have time to freak out later, but not now. It was an inversion of meaning, by saying it didn't mean anything you were able to keep going/functioning without breaking down or freezing.

Look at what you are saying. It's wrong. Simple as that. No matter how you excuse it, the word doesn't mean what you said. The dictionaries (every single one of them) say otherwise. Every decent source on the Internet says otherwise. That's because it is otherwise.

You can't find even a single authoritative reliable source that will agree with you.

Most people are actually using it correctly. It is not uncommon for new people to make the mistake that you are, and it is also not really rare for experienced people too (particularly here on UHH). It is still a mistake. The word has always had just one meaning, and that has not changed. It's just that yes it is a technical point, and many people are not technical. It's hard to get across that using the wrong word or the right word in the wrong way causes others to have difficulty understanding what is being said.

Those of us with a few decades of experience have a duty to help others get it right.

It's not really about photography, it's about effective written communications.
Slow down Robert. (This ain't 'Nam, and for 55,00... (show quote)


OK, go on with your crusade for the "correct" meaning. Only time will tell if the definition shifts or not.
If a word has or acquires multiple meanings then for effective communication you must know all of them and be able to judge which is in use.

If I look at one of your images and I say "Man, that is one bad picture!" What did I say? What would someone in 1890 think I said? (Earliest known use of "bad" to mean something good was 1897.)
Definition drift = slang and repeated usage of the slang over time = new dictionary definition.

When it comes to language trying to help others get it right is mostly a losing proposition since there are a lot more people using the slang meaning then the ones doing the correcting.

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Jun 24, 2016 01:52:58   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
Why not just accept what it means today. It hasn't changed. It probably won't change.

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Jun 24, 2016 02:01:34   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Apaflo wrote:
Why not just accept what it means today. It hasn't changed. It probably won't change.

Browse through the Oxford Unabridged Dictionary and note how many words have multiple meanings, often with dates for when they meant that.

I fought that fight in the classroom for years. Then I learned to explain it as words can have multiple meanings and to communicate you need to know which meaning is being used. I didn't tell them to forget all the "wrong" meanings, it would have been a waste of time because society and culture were against me. Not to mention TV, movies, music and other things that they saw and heard a lot more than they did me.

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Jun 24, 2016 03:44:57   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
robertjerl wrote:
Browse through the Oxford Unabridged Dictionary and note how many words have multiple meanings, often with dates for when they meant that.

I fought that fight in the classroom for years. Then I learned to explain it as words can have multiple meanings and to communicate you need to know which meaning is being used. I didn't tell them to forget all the "wrong" meanings, it would have been a waste of time because society and culture were against me. Not to mention TV, movies, music and other things that they saw and heard a lot more than they did me.
Browse through the Oxford Unabridged Dictionary an... (show quote)

Get over it. Bokeh is a quality, not a quantity. That was true, that is true, and no matter how we look at it the meaning is not changing.

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Jun 24, 2016 04:46:33   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Apaflo wrote:
Get over it. Bokeh is a quality, not a quantity. That was true, that is true, and no matter how we look at it the meaning is not changing.

You need to get over it and stop taking your own opinions so seriously. All languages evolve constantly and English is not the same throughout the world.

Did you ever meet any gay Indians? Several decades back they were just happy Native Americans. While you are at it, look up the "N" word and a few other pejoratives.

Stop trying to prove to everyone how sophomoric and pseudo-intellectual you are by picking nits, trolling and carrying a chip on your shoulder. It only makes you look dumb (multiple meanings).

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Jun 24, 2016 05:21:46   #
TucsonCoyote Loc: Tucson AZ
 
I thought we had covered this DOF problem you are having the last time you asked this question mill_A ! ?
You are still cute though !

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Jun 24, 2016 07:09:40   #
Day.Old.Pizza Loc: Maple Grove, MN
 
mill_A wrote:
It seems like hit or miss when I'm taking the pictures. Seems like they're in focus when I'm in the DMF mode(magnifying the picture and using the manual focus) and when I look at the picture after it's taken but I upload it to the computer and...nope...more often than not the whole picture is not in focus...I read that I shouldn't be using anything in the focus mode but the flexible spot but just for kicks I've been experimenting trying "wide or zone" it's still hit or miss...

What am I missing? Oh and in the case of one shot here I tried to aim in the middle so I could get it all in focus. Seemed to get the flower and SOME of the leaf but not all. I was using a 55mm lens in AP and SP with ISO on auto

The last one was better but it just looks like the stem and a little of the petals are blurry...
It seems like hit or miss when I'm taking the pict... (show quote)


One thing I didn't see mentioned is the minimum distance between your lens and your subject. Inside that distance and your subject begins to lose focus. You look like you were trying to get close in for detail...maybe too close? Try moving back a foot or so, take the shot as you have been advised and then crop it until you get the size you want.

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Jun 24, 2016 07:10:36   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Yes, the out-of-focus areas, the blurry part.

Look at it this way, if the image was all perfectly in focus, it would have no bokeh,
therefore the bokeh is based on the (quality) of the out of focus area.

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Jun 24, 2016 09:57:32   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
Have you ever heard about depth of field?

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Jun 24, 2016 10:13:52   #
ole sarg Loc: south florida
 
go to camerasim.com and you will learn how to get everything into focus....

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Jun 24, 2016 11:39:27   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Apaflo wrote:
Get over it. Bokeh is a quality, not a quantity. That was true, that is true, and no matter how we look at it the meaning is not changing.

Ah, I never said it was a quantity, I just called it "bokeh" and said it was the out of focus area. You introduced the quantity and since then it has been about definition and how different people use different ones and they can change over time in a living language. You want something that never changes try Latin.

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Jun 24, 2016 12:21:05   #
oldtigger Loc: Roanoke Virginia-USA
 
not all lenses are created with the same design:
http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/10/24/phoblographers-roundup-lenses-best-bokeh/#.V21b3LgrKhd

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