Bloke Loc: Waynesboro, Pennsylvania

Hi guys,

May not post much these days, but I keep an eye on what is happening in here. I really don't see me getting into telescopes any time soon, but I have been looking at a couple of star trackers for use with a dslr. Specifically, the Vixen Optics 35505 Polarie, and the iOptron 3302W SkyTracker Camera Mount.

Looking at the youtube videos, it looks like the iOptron is the better bet, but I wondered if anyone here had played with either of these along the way?

My biggest worry is alignment - if I have to get down on my knees to look up through that little alignment scope, I will not be able to get back up again without substantial assistance from the tripod - thus risking losing the alignment once again! I have bad knees, and a bad back, so I really mean that I would not be able to get back up!

Having a tripod tall *and* sturdy enough that I could align it while standing would probably price the whole thing out of my range - followed a link this morning to one which would be great for the job, and which would cost $1300... :shock: For that price, I expect a little man to come with it and do all the carrying and setup!

I spent a good while scanning ebay, looking for a nice old tank of a tripod, but didn't see anything. On a side note, ebay is becoming a waste... All you get on there are hundreds of identical ads for cheap rubbish, with so many key words in the title that they match every possible search! The fact that ebay (like Amazon!) will not group words in the search, but will find any item which matches *any* word in the search term, doesn't help matters either...

Anyway, the point of all this is just to see if anyone has any good/bad tales about these trackers...

Europa Loc: West Hills, CA

I have the iOptron and attach it to a Dolica tripod http://www.dolica.com/tripods/lx650b502-ds-65-aluminum-alloy-tripod-black this has worked perfectly for me, just need darker skies. Another option is the Celestron Astromaster http://www.celestron.com/browse-shop/astronomy/mounts-and-tripods/astromaster-tripod. But it's only 41" high, where the Dolica is 65". Price range is $70 for Celestron and $150 for Dolica.

If you have decided, be sure to try your existing tripod, you may be surprised.

I can't compare Vixon, I did hear good things, but I do like the iOptron, be sure to get the apple app for the polar align, it is very quick and easy.

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

I have had very good success using the iOptron SkyTracker. With a 24mm lens, I have tracked 4 minutes without any sign of star trails and with a heavy 70-200 f2.8, I have gone 30 sec without trails.

I am including some pictures of this mounted on a Celestron tripod. I had bought the Celestron Astromaster AZ tripod some years ago and never found it that nice to use as the handle was either all or nothing and fine adjustments were difficult. So I removed the top section and mounted the iOptron directly to it. Next, I found the provided knobs to tighten down the iOpton to be too small to tighten to the point that it didn't slip, so a trip to ACE Hardward solved that with screws with wing nuts. There are 3 of them. One to keep the iOptron from rotating, and two to prevent the rotating part to slip. Problem solved, no more slip. I may cut the screw a little shorter, but haven't got around to it yet.

Notice also that I place a sack filled with pea gravel on the leg support braces. This makes a big difference in lowering the center of gravity and making the whole setup have less vibration.

I did have to mount a ball head onto the iOptron, and I placed a Swiss Arca Clamp onto the ball head so it is easy to mount the camera or lens. I then attach the corresponding Swiss Arca Plates onto each camera and lens I wish to use.

And then one more thing I do is I mount a Tasco Red Dot Finder onto the flash shoe since aiming the camera is near impossible in the dark. With the Red Dot Finder, aiming is a piece of cake.

I use this tripod fully extended. In looking through the polar scope, I always take along a folding chair and I can sit in it while aligning.

My experience with this mount is that it is very easy to set up and can really maintain good tracking. But until I added the wing nut screws, I could never tighten the thing sufficient that it wouldn't slip.

One other thing is that I use a 12V battery from Harbor Freight Tools. I have never ever loaded it with small batteries. I use the same battery I use for my larger mount. I have included a picture of this battery. It has two cigarette lighter ports and also a place to plug in a laptop.

One more thing I did to the tripod is to turn it upside down and to fill the inside of the plastic leg braces with epoxy cement. I actually broke one of the supports and discovered it was not strong enough for what I was doing. Once filled with epoxy, the support is very strong.

iOptron


Mounted on Tripod


The Celestron Tripod I use


5 in 1 Portable Power Pack

dlmorris Loc: Loma Linda, Ca

I also have the iOptron Sky Tracker, and really enjoy it. I can understand your problem with looking up into the polar scope, as you are quite a bit further north than I am (Southern Ca,), but to my knowledge you will have the same issue with any polar scope on any mount. The solution is either a short chair to sit on while looking up into it, or a taller mount of some sort. Perhaps a single pipe with some removable legs?? You do need the app (free) on your smart phone to use the polar scope, but once you have that, polar alignment is very easy...

Bloke Loc: Waynesboro, Pennsylvania

Sorry, it's taken me a while to get back to this. I liked the idea of the chair, at first. Thinking about it some more, though, I suspect that any chair low enough to work for me in this, is also going to present serious problems in my getting up out of it!

My current thinking is that I will have to set up right beside the car, where I can kneel down and to my stuff, then turn to use the car for help in getting back up again... Having worn-out legs is really not much fun! Actually, now that I think on it some more, maybe something like a walker would work... I had one some years ago, after surgery, but I have no idea where on Earth I would have put it.
Ha! There is actually one of these about 6 feet away from me right now! It's out on the porch, where the landlady stores some misc stuff, right outside my window!

A couple of people have mentioned needing the app in order to align, but I do not really understand this. Surely, all it takes is to point the little scopy-thing (technical term...) at Polaris? I don't recall any of the youtube videos mentioning an app...

dlmorris Loc: Loma Linda, Ca

I had to laugh about you getting back OUT of the chair! I can kind of relate, as I'm getting there myself.. I use one of those adjustable astronomy chairs, which really helps.
As for the app. Polaris, as you know, is not exactly north, so the app shows a circle (which is identical to what you see in the alignment scope), and shows where Polaris should be positioned on it, considering your time and location. It is very easy, and very fast, as as far as I know, very accurate. I suppose there might be some other way of figuring it out, but I haven't tried. Just put Polaris where the app says it should be, and there you go....

dlmorris Loc: Loma Linda, Ca

By the way, if you have any smart phone or an iPad or some such thing, go to the App Store and look for the iOptron app. It is free. You'll get an idea of what it is.

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

With the tripod I am using, I actually need a taller chair than I actually have been using to see through the polar alignment scope. A chair that can adjust up or down would be best. I don't have to get down low for anything. I do set my 12V battery under the tripod and plug a cable into it and run it to the iOptron for power.

I was experimenting with the iOptron Skytracker last night using a 300mm lens and a crop sensor camera and was doing OK with 20 to 30 sec exposures without seeing star trails. The only issue was that bright moon causing images to be washed out with the longer exposures.

I also modified my iOpron setup slightly. I had found that the ball head was too close to the iOptron tracker, so I got a longer, 4" 3/8x16 screw from HomeDepot and some nylon spacers and 3/8 nuts to clamp everything tight. The result is that the ball head now sits father away and can more easily allow the camera and lens to point straight up without interfering with the protruding polar scope.

Bloke Loc: Waynesboro, Pennsylvania

I couldn't find an iOptron-specific app at the google store, but they did have a $0.99 'polarfinder' app which came up when I searched for iOptron, so I grabbed that.

SonnyE Loc: Communist California, USA

While not exactly a cure, an idea that might help.
I was looking for a diagonal for a polar scope, and I found this IPhone attachment...
http://www.gvarros.com/polaralign_iphone.htm
It uses an adapter to mount an Iphone so it can show the scopes view.
The adapter looks like it was made by gluing a PVC cover plate, and an appropriate coupling together. Then two Velcro straps to hold the phone's camera lens in alignment with a hole.

Since I'm an Android type, I used this:
http://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=appinventor.ai_l_scambia.PolarAlignment&hl=en
In this app there is an example of an "Anytime Set-up" where Polaris is put at an 8 O'clock orientation.
I actually used that a lot, and I've taken a lot of flack over saying so. Up to and including being banned from one forum.
But another Friend of mine told me many have been banned from that over moderated forum. Say-La-Vi.

I have since gone an entirely different direction, I do my Polar Alignment as a part of my Alignment procedure, using PHD2 and Celestron's Polar alignment in my mounts software.
I do not have to do an alignment with my Polar Scope anymore as I set my mount up on marks in my yard, so my tripods feet always index the same place and orientation.
Probably not a viable solution for you though, Phil. You sound like you need portability.

But maybe something as simple as a Mechanics Inspection Mirror could avoid having to bend down into impossibly awkward positions?

dlmorris Loc: Loma Linda, Ca

T

You can remove the polar scope once you get your alignment. Otherwise, as you found, it just gets,in the way.

Bloke Loc: Waynesboro, Pennsylvania

Yeah, I do need something portable. I don't have a garden/yard of any description to even try and adapt a solution. The parking lot behind the church across the street is ok for quick tests, such as I posted last week, but there is no way to be sure I am in the same spot each time. Besides, depending on where in the sky I am looking, I have to move around, since there are 3 large street lights in various locations.

My 'dark' site is a parking lot in the middle of the woods almost at the top of a mountain. The trees surrounding it do a decent job of screening out skyglow from the town, but they do it by screening out the whole bottom 30 or 40 degrees of the southern sky... It is only a few feet off one of the only 2 roads to the town of South Mountain, so passing traffic would be a real pain in the proverbial. Fortunately, the times I have been up there, it has been late enough that I only see 1 or 2 cars per hour. It has its limitations, certainly, but I am glad to have it there, only about 10 miles away. A lot of people on or close to either coast have to travel a whole lot further than that to see any kind of sky at all!

My planning and finances are pretty much taken up right now with a trip back to the UK in May, but once I get back, and can see what kind of money I have left, I have some plans... Even just with the gear I tested out a few days ago, I should be able to get some good milky way images. If I can manage to get one of these trackers, and figure out a way to align it, the sky's (literally!) the limit!

The idea of a mirror is brilliant! I can't imagine why I didn't think of that! I was looking at some astronomical adjusting seats this afternoon, but they start at around $100, and as I said above, I am not sure I would be able to get up from one in any case... I would certainly be happier if I didn't have to kneel down for any purpose, and that is a fact! I put one of those mirrors on my wish list, so I won't forget about it...

dlmorris Loc: Loma Linda, Ca

I can't imagine a mirror working. Thought about it, but never tried it. Let me know how it goes....

SonnyE Loc: Communist California, USA

I'd bet you have some sort of a mirror you could test the idea with. ;) Maybe even a piece of a mirror.
Do remember it might give you a 'mirror image'. :?
And have a great trip home to the UK!
Happy Landings Phil! May is not far away.

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

My concern with removing the polar scope is that I like to recheck the alignment each time after re-positioning the camera. This is always the chance that I have moved it out of alignment.