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Canon vs Nikon: Which is better?
Here is the truth one of them doesn't want you to know
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General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
How wolves changed a river
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Feb 20, 2014 11:22:22   #
rolf
 
Subject: How wolves changed a river













http://youtu.be/ysa5OBhXz-Q
 
Feb 20, 2014 11:33:40   #
GARGLEBLASTER
 
I have seen this before but thank you for postig it anyway, it is absolutely fascinating and is an example of how man's interference in nature has had such a devastating effect that fortunately, has been remedied by a few. Maybe we have still time to learn.
Feb 20, 2014 11:54:56   #
Robert Graybeal
 
absolutely amazing information.
Feb 20, 2014 12:15:20   #
venturer9
 
GARGLEBLASTER wrote:
I have seen this before but thank you for postig it anyway, it is absolutely fascinating and is an example of how man's interference in nature has had such a devastating effect that fortunately, has been remedied by a few. Maybe we have still time to learn.


Re introduced the Wolves...

Why were the wolves gone, did man kill them all?

Wolves were re introduced into Northern Illinois and soon became a major killer of livestock

Wolves Killed Coyote's so that birds could eat more rabbits and mice , But I suppose the remaining Coyotes died of starvation..??

Trees Quintupled in 6 years... Maybe Saplings but not Grown Trees...

Elk are not deer...

Illinois (at least in the Southern Half) are inundated by White Tail Deer... they do some damage, crops etc., but not causing any
other damage that I am aware of like erosion, deforestation etc..

according to the Illinois Gov. report there were 176,799 deer killed in the 2013 Hunting season..............and there are probably 3 or 4 times that living here today...

What would the effect of re introduction of Wolves in Southern Illilnois have had on any thing at all... except to kill a few sheep or pigs.

If the video is totally correct, I am very happy....I just often wonder on things of this sort, what is the "Negative" effect on things.... They are very seldom discussed..

Mike
Feb 20, 2014 13:46:22   #
stevetl
 
rolf wrote:
Subject: How wolves changed a river


I'd me curious what MT Shooter and other local photographers think about the statements in this video. Pretty big assertions. Nature changes are usually more complex.









http://youtu.be/ysa5OBhXz-Q
Feb 20, 2014 15:36:03   #
sarge69 (a regular here)
 
video removed due to copyright infringement

Sarge69
 
Feb 20, 2014 15:55:53   #
treehugger
 
I might be one of the locals you are asking about, and probably one of the few residents of Fremont County who supported, and still support the re-introduction of Wolves to the greater Yellowstone ecosystem. The link to the video is no longer active due to copyright considerations, but a with a quick search you should be able to find another one.
I have watched this video on several occasions and have found nothing in it that contradicts the science, or the changes that I have seen over the years. The Aspin are coming back, as are the beaver, otters, badger, and wolverine. I don’t see as many Coyote as I used to, which makes for more mice, voles, ground squirrels, and rabbets.
If any of you have a real interest in “apex predators” and “throphic Cascade.” I recommend the book “Where the Wild Things Were” by William Stolzenburg. It’s a very informative book, and an easy read. Even I could understand it.
Feb 20, 2014 16:04:57   #
treehugger
 
GARGLEBLASTER wrote:
I have seen this before but thank you for postig it anyway, it is absolutely fascinating and is an example of how man's interference in nature has had such a devastating effect that fortunately, has been remedied by a few. Maybe we have still time to learn.


As an obvious Adams fan, I assume you have read "Last Chance to See." Another interesting look at vanishing species.
Feb 21, 2014 07:44:00   #
FutureLook
 
Great documentary on wolves relocation and their contribution to change the eco system. Quite enlightening. Thanks for sharing!
Feb 21, 2014 10:13:40   #
Robin Poole
 
Haven't seen these documentaries but have just talked and observed. My conclusion is that Mother Nature will eventually balance things out. When wolves move into "virgin" territory, they have a field day! There packs grow and all is cool for them. After a while their food supplies start to dwindle and they don't have enough to feed their pups so the pups start to die off. Then the territorial wars break out and the KIA'S mount up on each side. Some of the "war" survivors then die of mange. Then the elk and other game animals get a population increase. Eventually the wolves get their numbers back. There probably won't be as many as a few years ago but they'll be up, and so will the elk numbers. Right now the humans are suffering the most. They are the hunting Outfitters, hunters and ranchers. They are howling louder than the wolves over the loss of business and live stock. My opinions are formed thru discussions with park rangers and "Yellow car" Bobs wolf followers in YNP, as well as reading posts by outfitters and ranchers here in Montana. The wolves are certainly of great economic value to YNP especially in the winter. You wouldn't believe the " Wolf Jams" in the Lamar Valley.

Cheers, Robin
Feb 21, 2014 10:21:54   #
FutureLook
 
Robin Poole wrote:
Haven't seen these documentaries but have just talked and observed. My conclusion is that Mother Nature will eventually balance things out. When wolves move into "virgin" territory, they have a field day! There packs grow and all is cool for them. After a while their food supplies start to dwindle and they don't have enough to feed their pups so the pups start to die off. Then the territorial wars break out and the KIA'S mount up on each side. Some of the "war" survivors then die of mange. Then the elk and other game animals get a population increase. Eventually the wolves get their numbers back. There probably won't be as many as a few years ago but they'll be up, and so will the elk numbers. Right now the humans are suffering the most. They are the hunting Outfitters, hunters and ranchers. They are howling louder than the wolves over the loss of business and live stock. My opinions are formed thru discussions with park rangers and "Yellow car" Bobs wolf followers in YNP, as well as reading posts by outfitters and ranchers here in Montana. The wolves are certainly of great economic value to YNP especially in the winter. You wouldn't believe the " Wolf Jams" in the Lamar Valley.

Cheers, Robin
Haven't seen these documentaries but have just tal... (show quote)


Thanks for your input. Living in the south for most of my life makes me a neophyte on many ecology changes in the north that includes the pros and cons on those changes caused my herds being moved to different areas. :thumbup:
 
Feb 21, 2014 10:54:31   #
Robin Poole
 
FutureLook wrote:
Thanks for your input. Living in the south for most of my life makes me a neophyte on many ecology changes in the north that includes the pros and cons on those changes caused my herds being moved to different areas. :thumbup:


Future, thanks for your unbiased reply. Much appreciated. Robin
Feb 21, 2014 11:01:25   #
FutureLook
 
Robin Poole wrote:
Future, thanks for your unbiased reply. Much appreciated. Robin




:thumbup:
Feb 21, 2014 12:19:01   #
Shellback
 
Thought you would like to see some pictures of the size of the Canadian Grey Wolf introduced into the US.

Some facts on wolves...

This is a picture of a pack of 25 wolves taken in the Weippe area in Idaho. Although you might not agree with hunting, this shows the size of the animal in relation to the human.

Each one of these eats 24 elk per year. This group alone will consume 600 elk this year. That doesn't even factor in the "sport kills."

The Canadian Gray Wolf runs in packs of up to twenty wolves. For every one animal they kill to eat, these Canadian wolves kill about three more just for the fun of it. The biologists call it "sport-reflex killing" or "lustful killing". The Canadian Gray Wolf is a killing machine.

These are federal wolves, as it was the federal government who introduced them into Idaho over our objections. They told the state of Idaho that the wolves would be considered recovered when they had a total of 100 wolves in Idaho . Now they have between 800 and 2,000 wolves and the situation is out of control.

Idaho 's wolf emergency is a state issue. And in this situation, the state of Idaho has both a duty and the authority to protect its people and their property. House Bill 343 lays out the facts, the argument and the authority to do so. - Idaho Rep Phil Hart.

Can you imagine gun control out there?

This is not a good place to let the cat out.

Make sure you are packing protection when you go for a walk in the mountains.

You never know when a wolf pack might surround you!




Feb 21, 2014 12:20:05   #
Sierracoyote
 
Nature is very selective with NEGATIVE "things" which is always a POSITIVE action.
If you care to- look into the Isle Royal project to understand Population Periodism regarding wolves and moose, or read anything by Dr. David mech or Barry Lopez "Of Wolves and Men".
The narrator of this video is from the UK and yes he calls Elk "deer", but He is not incorrect- Deer are mammals that belong to the family Cervidae. There are many species in the deer family, including various types of deer, moose, elk (wapiti), caribou, and reindeer.
Next ask youself- Why does man hunt deer? For food, for sport, to control population so they don't over feed and damage the environment? Is that why man is also a preadator and shares the same niche as the wolf?
Nature has LOTS of lessons to be learned and if we don't understand then we (humans) will be the negative that nature will turn into a positive.
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