Raleigh Loc: Reside in Olympia WA

Lightroom 5 along with the Topaz plugins of your choice work very well. If You get Topaz Fx Lab you will be working in layers. It's a great combination of tools.

Nightski

I say, just get them all. What fun! I want topaz and silver efex too. :-)

Raleigh Loc: Reside in Olympia WA

Topaz has webinars where they offer 30%-50% discounts on the products. Taking advantage of those discounts has enabled me, over time, to purchase some of the programs. The webinars also do a nice job of teaching one how to use the programs.
It sounds as if I work for them, but I don't....just trying to help

Nightski

Hey Raleigh, you don't have to sell me on buying more toys for my photography...LOL

sportyman140 Loc: Juliette, GA

Wrong the Program Raw converter comes with the software when you purchase it

sueyeisert Loc: New Jersey

The RAW editor is better in Lightroom than elements and will not be updated in version 11 since 12 is out. Also Having used both programs I like the cataloging much better in Lightroom. Most people I know hardly use photoshop since they have lightroom.

Nightski

So Sue, right now I am learning about Elements 11 with lynda.com. There are also tutorials for Lightroom. Currently I am still importing everything into Lightroom and have had a tiny bit of experience with using the elements 11. I stitched together a pano, and have done a tiny bit of editing. I want the ability to layer and do panos. That's why I purchased 11. I am glad you made this comment about the cataloguing. Do you think I should continue to import everything in Lightroom, and use the editing feature in elements 11 to do the things that Lightroom does not do? You have stated that Lightroom has superior cataloguing capabilities. I wonder what other features Lightroom is best at, an which ones Elements 11 is best at. That information could be extremely helpful to the op. I think that if you have Lightroom 5.2 and Elements 12, you would never need photoshop. Any opinions on that?

romanticf16 Loc: Commerce Twp, MI

Lightroom is semipro and pro-it'll always have the same ACR as Photoshop, Elements will not have updated versions of ACR past the purchased one. Buy Lightroom, then buy Elements when Costco has it on sale for the Hollidays.

MtnMan Loc: ID

I have and use all of the above. I import everything into Lightroom.

For cataloging I don't feel that the catalog in Lightroom is significantly better than the Organizer in Elements. It may be just because I haven't learned to use all the features. I know I can do better with Collections. Elements 11 has a capability similar to Collections (Albums) and I don't know what 12 has gone to. I make almost no use of folders but you can do so with either. I mostly rely on keywords and photo sequence which is the same in both.

Lightroom is best at Edits you apply to the whole picture, including cropping first. The controls are simple and effective. It has some local editing capabilities and significantly improved them with Lightroom 5 but a layers based program such as Elements or Photoshop is far superior for that kind of work. For example you can replace a background in either of them. You can't do that in Lightroom.

One very powerful capability of Lightroom not available in Elements is to "synch" the changes you did on one photo to any others. Particularly if you shoot in RAW this can be highly valuable. Elements has some capability to do something like this but it is awkward and not always workable. Photoshop has a similar capability to script "Actions" but I don't use it because it is harder for me. Actions are like Macros in Microsoft programs: they run a bunch of steps. Synch in Lightroom does the same. Although Elements can "play" some Photoshop Actions you cannot create Actions in Elements.

The Elements Editor, when combined with Adobe Camera RAW which also comes with Elements, is kind of like a Photoshop Light. IMHO it does almost everything that I would want to do with Photoshop. (One notable Exception: Photoshop includes and HDR converter.) Although I have and use Photoshop instead of Elements now I haven't found it greatly superior. The main thing that Elements and Photoshop offer over Lightroom is the ability to do layers. Layers open up a whole new world of Editing.

The Elements Organizer even has simple editing capabilities similar to those available in Lightroom.

My recommendation, having used all of them, is that if you want one program, or if money is a significant consideration, get Elements 12. It will be years before you have exhausted its capabilities.

Later on, if you want to simplify much of your processing, get Lightroom. Most who get Lightroom and use Photoshop or Elements as well spend 90% of their time just using Lightroom.

I would not buy Photoshop unless you can, like I did, get the student discount. The few features it adds are nowhere near worth the price. When my Photoshop tires out I would go back to Elements. But, since I have Photoshop and am eligible, I may sign up for the Adobe Cloud offer at $9.95 per month. I think I'd have to do that by December.

I don't see any "gotta have" features in Elements 12 over 11. I do like that it simplifies opening jpeg images in ACR, but I know how to do that in 11, if somewhat awkwardly. But 11 was a huge upgrade in usability do I'd definitely upgrade if I had 10 or earlier.

Hope those thoughts are of some use.

oldtool2 Loc: South Jersey

MtmMan,

I am still using LR 4.4 and PSE 10 and like both programs. I have been seriously considering upgrading to LR 5. As often as Adobe keeps upgrading their programs it is easy to spend a couple of hundred dollars every year!

If you were me would you upgrade just one program or both? What advantages are there in upgrading to PSE 12 over version 10?

As for Adobe Cloud, I don't see where it is needed by someone like me, a non-professional. From what I have read its main use is for storage for those using LR and/or PSE. There may be advantages to those that use Photoshop but sense I am not a student I can't afford to go there, and LR with PSE seems to do anything I want to do. Is this correct?

Jim D

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

WildernessI - I too suggest giving DPP another look. (Download the latest copy from the Canon site.) I do most of my work in DPP using RAW images. There's a lot more overall editing power in LR5, but most of my images can be quickly and completely handled in the RAW editor in DPP. Typical DPP edits: adjusting for the Canon lens used, changing the Picture Style (I shoot in Faithful and adjust to Standard or Landscape), adjusting the White Balance, adjusting the Contrast, sharpening and cropping. The Quick Check tool also helps to first cull images down to those to be processed further. I then use a batch process to export from RAW to JPEG. From a long day / weekend / week of shooting there will be several / many images that need additional work. These I re-export to a 16bit TIFF for LR5, usually I'll want to clone something out or work with specific colors in the image. (I might also use just a high quality JPEG from DPP rather than a separate TIFF). From LR5 I may move into a Topaz module or PSE10. If only choosing between a PSE upgrade and LR5, my vote would be for LR5.

After getting to know more about LR5 and how to use it, I've actually become more proficient in DPP by learning more about what the sliders in the RAW tab can do where DPP overlaps with LR5. Sadly, there just isn't that much available in terms of online tutorials for DPP as compared to the Adobe products.

MtnMan Loc: ID

In my view you get much more by going from Elements 10 to 12 than you do by going from Lightroom 4 to 5. If you wait for the sales from Costco or Amazon you should be able to get Elements 12 for under $50.

The main thing you get with Elements 12 over 10 is the MUCH enhanced user interface which was upgraded in 11. It made a huge difference for me and I wished I had it to start with. If you are a real expert with 10 that may not be worth much to you, though. Changing may be more annoying than helpful. There are also more content-aware features in the upgrades. They alone are probably worth the $50.

The main things I found with the Lightroom 5 upgrade are a new radial filter and more useful healing brush. So far I haven't used them as much as I thought I might. Time spent in learning how to better use the features in 4, e.g. Collections, might be more valuable.

Nightski

All your thoughts were very useful, MtnMan. I appreciate the time you took to spell all that out. Thank you.
:thumbup:

Nightski

Gosh, I still haven't even loaded my Canon Software since I got my new camera! Shame on me. If only work didn't get in the way of my photography time. :D

pigpen

I bought LR4 just weeks before LR5 came out. I watched a video (Kelby??) that listed the 10 top upgrades from4 to 5. These were deffinately not worth an upgrade, in my eyes. Many of the changes had to do with the "Map", "book", and "slideshow". For example, you can now add short videos along with still photos inot the slideshow. I did upgrade from PSE9 to PSE11 at the same time. I did notice several changes in that upgrade, but still use LR4 for 90% of my work.